can't get breach plug out....
01-08-2005, 01:46 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County Pa
Posts: 180
can't get breach plug out....
I have a CVA Magbolt 150 and I am having one terrible time getting the breach plug out. I already broke the cheap tool that came w/ the rifle. It seems that since I put my scope on, I can't reach the breach plug right or I have seized it up by shooting approximetly 20 shots w/o taking it out. Does anyone have any reccomendations for what I should do????
01-08-2005, 02:15 PM
#2
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: can't get breach plug out....
Remove the barrel from the stock and place the breech into a tin can. Prior to placing the barrel in a can, plug the 209 breech plug with an old primer and some tape or something like that then pour some liquid wrench into the barrel so it goes down and surrounds the siezed breech plug. Now you should have liquid wrench or penetrating oil inside and around the outside of the breech. Let it sit like that overnight if it is really stuck fast. In the morning figure out some kind of tool that you can get a hold of it with and put the barrel in a vice. Then with the tool in place tap that breech wrench. That should unseize it, and allow you to turn it out.
I am not sure of the design of your breech. If the plug itself is a slot like a flat head screwdrive or a socket type head. If it is a socket type head, find the right socket and a long extension might reach past the striker area and allow you to turn the whole works out.... I do this with my Black Diamond XR.
The next time you put the breech plug back in, apply a good amount of Breech Plug Grease. After about the seventh shot, take your wrench and turn that breech plug back and fourth to make sure that it is not seizing....
I am not sure of the design of your breech. If the plug itself is a slot like a flat head screwdrive or a socket type head. If it is a socket type head, find the right socket and a long extension might reach past the striker area and allow you to turn the whole works out.... I do this with my Black Diamond XR.
The next time you put the breech plug back in, apply a good amount of Breech Plug Grease. After about the seventh shot, take your wrench and turn that breech plug back and fourth to make sure that it is not seizing....
01-08-2005, 04:04 PM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: can't get breach plug out....
Kyle3,
What are you doing to install it at this time? Are you using an anti-seize compound of some type? It should not be that difficult to get out if installed properly. Have you got the pug out now? Instead of using the tool provided by CVA get a ratchet, an extetnsion, and a ratchet screwdriver to put in the slots of the breech plug. You might have to grind the ratchet screw driver to fit snugly in the slot. Example:...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../RatDriver.jpg
Cayugad has suggeted a tried & tru method for getting it out, but if you want to try possibly an easier step first, you might try this. Remove the scope, remove the bolt, remove the gun from the stock. Boil a pan of water, depth of water needs to be deep enough to allow you to hold the barrel and stand the receiver in the boiling water for a couple of minutes. Remove from the water and with a tool turn the breech plug out. If this fails or if you wish go to Cayugads suggestion.
Installing you breeh plug again make sure to use an anti-sieze. I do not use the grease compounds to messy for me. I use Teflon tape and so far it has worked on every gun I have tried it on. But it needs to be installed correctly, this is the way I get the job done...
Hope this does you some good....
What are you doing to install it at this time? Are you using an anti-seize compound of some type? It should not be that difficult to get out if installed properly. Have you got the pug out now? Instead of using the tool provided by CVA get a ratchet, an extetnsion, and a ratchet screwdriver to put in the slots of the breech plug. You might have to grind the ratchet screw driver to fit snugly in the slot. Example:...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../RatDriver.jpg
Cayugad has suggeted a tried & tru method for getting it out, but if you want to try possibly an easier step first, you might try this. Remove the scope, remove the bolt, remove the gun from the stock. Boil a pan of water, depth of water needs to be deep enough to allow you to hold the barrel and stand the receiver in the boiling water for a couple of minutes. Remove from the water and with a tool turn the breech plug out. If this fails or if you wish go to Cayugads suggestion.
Installing you breeh plug again make sure to use an anti-sieze. I do not use the grease compounds to messy for me. I use Teflon tape and so far it has worked on every gun I have tried it on. But it needs to be installed correctly, this is the way I get the job done...
This subject came up again on another forum. This the information I posted and it WORKS, anyway on my four inlines. I really don not even worry about siezed plugs - I shoot several rounds each trip to the rock pit.
The following picture shows my efforts as explained below.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...BreechPlug.jpg
this is one of those things that I have really been forunate with. When I go to the range I shoot 30-40 shots 100 grains of loose t7 with 209 primers. I shoot 2 Remingtons and 2 A&H's, and 1 Firebolt. With all five of these guns I beleive I have the breech plug thing whipped. I do not loosen or even fool around with the breech plug at the range. When I get home and get to it I turn it (them) out with very little pressure. I have tried several anti sieze products, and anti sieze with tape, even tried the finger tight thing, but have settled on just TC's tape - one wrap.
From the two sidelocks that I built I think I have learned something.... I believe the the face of the breech plug should mate up with the face flange of the barrel, if this mating is clean and tight, this mating should stop gasses from going back into the threads of your breech plug. I have blackened the face of my breech plugs screwed them in snuggly against the barrel flange - back them back out and checked the black to see if contact had been made all the way around. The 2 Remingtons and one of the A&H's showed that there was good contact all the way around on the plug. One A&H seemed to have a very small non-contact spot. The next thing I do is start wrapping Teflon tape from the barrel end of the plug back to the nipple end. The key for me is that begining wrap - when I am done wrapping the tape on the barrel end of the plug it should extend out from the plug - I then push and press the tape down on the face of the plug - instert it into the threads and I tighten it snuggly against the barrel flange - not tight - do not want to tear the teflon, but make it snug because you need to compress the teflon a bit. If you look down into the barrel with a barrel light you should see the teflon all the way around the breech plug in the barrel. Your very first shot will drive that excess teflon back up into any gaps there might be and your threads are sealed... (the teflon might even cover the flash hole when your done wrapping) Popping one cap will take care of that.
That is my formula it has worked well for me - but every rifle is different so I can't say it will work for you all. I really believe it all comes down to how well the face of the plug and the face of the barrel mate up.
The following picture shows my efforts as explained below.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...BreechPlug.jpg
this is one of those things that I have really been forunate with. When I go to the range I shoot 30-40 shots 100 grains of loose t7 with 209 primers. I shoot 2 Remingtons and 2 A&H's, and 1 Firebolt. With all five of these guns I beleive I have the breech plug thing whipped. I do not loosen or even fool around with the breech plug at the range. When I get home and get to it I turn it (them) out with very little pressure. I have tried several anti sieze products, and anti sieze with tape, even tried the finger tight thing, but have settled on just TC's tape - one wrap.
From the two sidelocks that I built I think I have learned something.... I believe the the face of the breech plug should mate up with the face flange of the barrel, if this mating is clean and tight, this mating should stop gasses from going back into the threads of your breech plug. I have blackened the face of my breech plugs screwed them in snuggly against the barrel flange - back them back out and checked the black to see if contact had been made all the way around. The 2 Remingtons and one of the A&H's showed that there was good contact all the way around on the plug. One A&H seemed to have a very small non-contact spot. The next thing I do is start wrapping Teflon tape from the barrel end of the plug back to the nipple end. The key for me is that begining wrap - when I am done wrapping the tape on the barrel end of the plug it should extend out from the plug - I then push and press the tape down on the face of the plug - instert it into the threads and I tighten it snuggly against the barrel flange - not tight - do not want to tear the teflon, but make it snug because you need to compress the teflon a bit. If you look down into the barrel with a barrel light you should see the teflon all the way around the breech plug in the barrel. Your very first shot will drive that excess teflon back up into any gaps there might be and your threads are sealed... (the teflon might even cover the flash hole when your done wrapping) Popping one cap will take care of that.
That is my formula it has worked well for me - but every rifle is different so I can't say it will work for you all. I really believe it all comes down to how well the face of the plug and the face of the barrel mate up.
01-08-2005, 05:14 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
RE: can't get breach plug out....
Proper ratchet, extention & socket. You'll also need a pipe to fit over the ratchet handle, a hammer, some PB Blaster spray & a vice.
Block the breechplug hole & spray PB Blaster down the bore. Keep spraying until you count 15 seconds off the clock. Let it sit 24 hours. Put the towel-wrapped gun in a vise & use jerky hits with hammer on the pipe. First go tighter... yes tighter. Now go in reverse. Use CVA Breechplug & Nipple Grease. Only hand-tighten next time. Crack the seal on it after every several shots... then hand-tighten again. When you are finished shooting & the rifle is real warm, turn the plug loose two turns until you get home.
Block the breechplug hole & spray PB Blaster down the bore. Keep spraying until you count 15 seconds off the clock. Let it sit 24 hours. Put the towel-wrapped gun in a vise & use jerky hits with hammer on the pipe. First go tighter... yes tighter. Now go in reverse. Use CVA Breechplug & Nipple Grease. Only hand-tighten next time. Crack the seal on it after every several shots... then hand-tighten again. When you are finished shooting & the rifle is real warm, turn the plug loose two turns until you get home.
01-08-2005, 06:00 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: can't get breach plug out....
Kyle3,
After a lot of years trying to figure this breech plug thing out and talking to a lot of people that know a lot more than I - gun smiths that deal with this problem every hunting season, we, they, I have come to the following conclusion, starting with the thought above.
Kyle you might want to be careful if you follow this thought. The face of breech plup is designed to mate with the barrel flange at the end of the breech. This is where the gas and pressured is supposed to be stopped from blowing back into to the breeck area. If this seal occurs as designed then blow back into the threads of the breech will be very minimal if not eliminated. This blow back is what causes the breech plug threads to seal itself to the walls of the breech. If you seal with grease or if you seal this area with Teflon tape you should really try to get a seal. In my mind hand tightening will not reliably get this seal. Now I am not saying to tighten it up really tight but I really believe snug is better than loose. With the tape I try to tighten it to the point that the tape is compressed at the seal not torn or cut, and then I never touch the plug again till I am done shooting - I do not want to disturb that seal. Again this is my method and it works for me and several others but you will need to find one you have confidence in, but frozen breech plugs should not be a problem any longer even with heavy loads of t7.
Just my 2 cents... not saying that t7 would say anything that he doesn't believe.
Only hand-tighten next time.
Kyle you might want to be careful if you follow this thought. The face of breech plup is designed to mate with the barrel flange at the end of the breech. This is where the gas and pressured is supposed to be stopped from blowing back into to the breeck area. If this seal occurs as designed then blow back into the threads of the breech will be very minimal if not eliminated. This blow back is what causes the breech plug threads to seal itself to the walls of the breech. If you seal with grease or if you seal this area with Teflon tape you should really try to get a seal. In my mind hand tightening will not reliably get this seal. Now I am not saying to tighten it up really tight but I really believe snug is better than loose. With the tape I try to tighten it to the point that the tape is compressed at the seal not torn or cut, and then I never touch the plug again till I am done shooting - I do not want to disturb that seal. Again this is my method and it works for me and several others but you will need to find one you have confidence in, but frozen breech plugs should not be a problem any longer even with heavy loads of t7.
Just my 2 cents... not saying that t7 would say anything that he doesn't believe.
01-08-2005, 07:16 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
RE: can't get breach plug out....
The only difference between sabotloader's method & mine is how to deal with the seal. He wants a seal for the entire time at the range.... I want to occasionally break the seal every several shots to ensure removal. Every time I break the seal - it reseals itself.
Also... that breechplug never budges from it's exact same location ... even after 30 shots. A grease like CVA's takes care of the seizure problem when checked periodically using hot 777 FFF. I tried the tape method.... white/yellow & pink. I tried single layer, double layer, front fold-over, recessed... etc. I had less success with magnum 777 loads using the tape, but I found CVA Breechplug & Nipple Grease to be easy to remove... provided I unsealed the plug-face once in a while - then turned it back shut until it stopped using a socket wrench with no torque.
Also... that breechplug never budges from it's exact same location ... even after 30 shots. A grease like CVA's takes care of the seizure problem when checked periodically using hot 777 FFF. I tried the tape method.... white/yellow & pink. I tried single layer, double layer, front fold-over, recessed... etc. I had less success with magnum 777 loads using the tape, but I found CVA Breechplug & Nipple Grease to be easy to remove... provided I unsealed the plug-face once in a while - then turned it back shut until it stopped using a socket wrench with no torque.
01-09-2005, 02:02 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
Posts: 1,776
RE: can't get breach plug out....
Alot of good ideas. I like "PB Blaster" when things seize up. Best thing God ever created to free up frozen parts. Spray PB down barrel after plugging/taping shut 209 plug hole.Soak it for up to 24hrs. Use very light heat if really bad. If PB won't free it up - get your cuttin torch out! I have never tryed the teflon tape mentioned(will have to try it someday). I use a regular automotive type anti seize or a copper based high temp(2000 Deg)anti seize. I have never ever had a nipple,breech plug or any part for that matter freeze up after properly applying anti seize on threads. Buy it at automotive store, cheaper than anything gun shop will sell.
Bottom line is - If you don't use some type of compound or tape on threads of plug, your probably gonna have problems gettin it out.
Good Luck
Bottom line is - If you don't use some type of compound or tape on threads of plug, your probably gonna have problems gettin it out.
Good Luck
01-09-2005, 04:33 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
RE: can't get breach plug out....
QT
Depends on powder charge, powder type & what cleaners/solvents/grease you use. I've left mine in for around 40 shots one day.... most I ever fired at one sitting with one ML rifle. I just kept checking the tightness every several shots.
Some guys remove more often... some leave the breechplug in until the next range session.... just clean around it. 777 appears to be the hardest on plug seizures. More powder used means more time you need to check it. Sabotloader does fine with his tape job. I don't! He probably had problems with compound greases.. I haven't. Everyones different & so are the ML rifles. None of em' shoot alike or act the same.
Depends on powder charge, powder type & what cleaners/solvents/grease you use. I've left mine in for around 40 shots one day.... most I ever fired at one sitting with one ML rifle. I just kept checking the tightness every several shots.
Some guys remove more often... some leave the breechplug in until the next range session.... just clean around it. 777 appears to be the hardest on plug seizures. More powder used means more time you need to check it. Sabotloader does fine with his tape job. I don't! He probably had problems with compound greases.. I haven't. Everyones different & so are the ML rifles. None of em' shoot alike or act the same.