in my thompson center manual it says to season the barrel use only soap and hot water for cleaning and to rust protect use bore butter. im wondering if this cleaning method is good enough to clean out all the gack and lead from shooting maxi balls and round balls.ive used bore butter to coat the outside of the barrel but it doesnt do much for protecting from rust and gets nasty looking around where the cap goes off so i now use a good synthetic oil on the outside. it protects the finish much better. does anyone clean a cap lock with hopes or is hot soapy water good enough. should i use oil to coat the rifling instead of the bore butter?

I've got a houseful of TC Hawkens and TC's Natural Lube 1000 has been the only lube I've put down the bores of my muzzleloaders for 15 years now and it's outstanding...I shoot different ones year round and they still look like new.

Here's exactly how I follow TC's recommendations and it works perfectly:

1) After every shooting session I ensure the bore is cleaned 100% completely to the bare, raw metal, with steaming hot soapy water (mainly to heat up the barrel & melt off any residual bore butter) and very importantly, include a couple dozen strokes with a good bore brush so there is absolutely no buildup left inside.
Note 1 - Patches alone HAVE NEVER gotten my bores 100% clean...the notion that a 'white patch = clean" has never worked for me. When I think I have a bore clean with patches, I run a tight brush up and down a couple dozen times and am amazed at the new stuff that comes out on the next patch...only after a good brushing then clean patches do I assume a bore is really 100% clean.
Note 2 - I also use a cleaning rod with a .30cal brush and a patch to reach all the way down into the tapered cone of the patent breeches in TC rifles rifles to ensure they stay clean also.

2) I hot water rinse it, then immediately dry patch it to prevent 'flash rust', then allow the residual heat in the barrel to get it 100% bone dry for 4-5 minutes.

3) Then I literally use Popsicle sticks to reach in and pack the grooves with NL1000 (from a tube of NL1000) as far as I can reach, then plaster NL1000 heavily on cleaning/lubing patches, run them down bore (including the patent breech) and repeat this a couple times until I'm convinced every square of the bore is well covered, insulated from any air contact.

4) Next time before I shoot, I dry patch any excess lube out of the bore and then shoot as much as I want without having to wipe between shots, using TC's (or Oxyoke's) shooting patches lubed with NL1000...I shoot a 40 shot range session on Saturday mornings without having to wipe between shots.

IMO, the bottom line to maintaing a ML bore in like new condition is that it must be:

100% cleaned
100% dried
100% lubed

...every time.

liquidorange... there are two camps here. There are those that will tell you they have used it for years, and bore butter will protect the barrel and make your shooting experience wonderful. Then there are those that will warn you you're not doing anything to protect your rife if you use bore butter to protect the barrel.

I used to be a bore butter user, but had some bad experiences using it. Maybe I did use it wrong. Who knows. I used it according to directions and all I got was poor accuracy and rust in the bore.

Bore butter is a great conical lube and works alright as a patch lube for roundball. Other then that I have little use for the stuff. T/C tells you to clean your rifle with only hot water and re-season with bore butter. They also sell bore butter. What you think?

If all you have been using is bore butter, try something. Take a bore brush, dunk it in solvent. Now run that brush 15 strokes in the barrel. Then run a couple solvent patches and see what you got. The condition of the patches might change your mind about using only bore butter to protect your rifle.

I water bath my sidelocks, then I take and run solvent patches. Then brush the barrel. A few more solvent patches and some dry patches. I then run a alcohol patch through the barrel to make sure it is good and dry. After is has sat a while, I swab the barrel with a quality gun oil. I use REM OIL, Birchwood Casey Sheath, or Breakfree CLP. When I want to shoot the next time I take a patch with isopropyl or denatured alcohol on it, and swab all the oil out of the barrel. Then a few dry patches, and load as normal and shoot.

So in my opinion (and I stress this is my opinion) I would not use the bore butter. I would trust my rifle to a quality gun oil.

Just to clarify, this is exactly why the total cleaning / lubing regimen has to be used...just using bore butter is not the point...it's the less than 100% absoulte cleaning & drying steps that lead to problems.

I absolutely guarantee you that anyone who has gotten rust in their bores while using Natural Lube 1000 has failed in one of the three steps:
Not 100% clean
Not 100% dry
Didn't 100% coat the bore with Natural Lube

There are no other magic steps involved with a bore...get it clean, get it dry, get it completely covered with lube...if that's done, it cannot rust...period.

I have numerous TC Hawkens in this family dating bact to the late 80's, they get shot often in the course of a year, and they remain in showroom condition with a simple 20 minute regimen in the garage every time I shoot them...it's really quite simple, and 100% reliable.

roundball I respect your advise and opinion a great deal. That's why I have asked your advise on certain topics in the past. As to the bore butter all I will say is, use it in your rifles. I will stick with solvents and oil mine...

I have a friend that still uses the bore butter method for cleaning and taking care of his rifles. Whether he has problems, he has never said or complained. Like I told him one day after shooting and we were cleaning our rifles... I tried the stuff and it did not work for me.. This works and so I will stick with that...

that is why I put that note in my post.

i have always been methodical in my cleaning through the years but have been re-thinking things lately. what got me thinking was that i use to always treat the outside of the barrel with bore butter but it didnt do much for rust. im only talking about the outside metal of the barrel. when hunting in damp or light rain conditions the bore butter didnt protect much from minor surface rust. also the burning action of the cap seemed to scar the metal on the barrel near the hammer. i dont know if was a chemical reaction of the spark and heat with the bore butter? the barrel was re- blued a while back and still looks brand new after 3 seasons with the new finish and the only thing i did differently is use birchwood synthetic oil only on the outside barrel. this got me thinking about the inside. i was always afraid to use anything but bore butter and hot soapy water because i didnt want to ruin the seasoning process whatever that is? im begining to wonder since most shoot round ball in there cap locks the rifling doesnt need to be perfect or extremely clean to get it to shoot o.k. and thats why many havent complained about poor accuracy. a round ball will probably work with no rifling i bet. im just questioning if hot soapy water has enough cleaning action to remove lead from the lands and grooves as well as burnt powder.

Actually hot soapy water will remove most of the powder fowling in the barrel. You can tell this because all of a sudden the patches come out clean in the water bath. To remove the lead, you need to get a bore brush in there.

I use solvent with the brush. That is all a matter of choice. I also run solvent patches through the barrel after brushing because I could care less if the barrel is seasoned.

If you have any doubts about the inside of the bore, drop a bore light down there. It is amazing what some of the old rifle bores look like. I have one old rifle that still looks almost like new. I would have throught with all the brushing and scrubbing after shooting, it would have shown a lot more wear. At least there was no rust. Bore lights I feel are a great investment....

i have a bore lite. i just never used it on my muzzleloader but im gonna give it a try.im gonna clean it the old way and then have a look. thanks for the info i guess there 2 camps on this issue.

I've been using black powder guns in one form or another since 1970. Most have got used every year, but not all. When I started it was hard to find some of the lubes and recommended oils. Several old timers told me to clean them, dry them, and seal them. Most used a good grade car wax, outside and on a swab down the barrel. I've followed their lead and so far my guns have held up to as good as or better then ones my friends purchased and used only recommended lubes on. My view for what it's worth, is get it clean and dry, and keep it dry, period!

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wknouse

Learn sumthin' new everyday reading 22 ML boards across this country!

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