Pellets vs. Powder
 

Can you guys tell me the pros and cons of using powder vs. pellets? I heard that the Triple 7 pellets are shooting good, burning clean, and are easy to deal with. I haven't heard much about the Pyrodex stuff. I bought the Triple 7 pellets, what do you guys think I should buy next time?

Joey

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

It is really all about Trial and Error with developing your most accurate load. If your gun likes 2 x 50 gr pellets than stick with them. If not, then I would suggest buying some loose T7 and trying to tweak your load to see if you can improve upon the pellet load. I wouldn't bother trying the pyrodex pellets as it is the same charge level (100gr of T7 is the same as 100gr of Pyrodex pellets), just different characteristics (ie: smell, more smoke and more elbow grease when cleaning).

Pellets

Advanatage: ease & same charge
Disadvantage: Cost and limited customization for load developing

Powder

Advanatage: Cheaper and full customization for load developing. In T7 15% more potent than Pyrodex (so 100 gr of T7=115gr Pyrodex)
Disadvantage: requires a bit more effort


Good luck

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

I got the 777 pellets this year and love em. It will be hard for me to switch back to pyrdex.

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

For the 777 users, have you noticed any buildup in the barrel that makes loading a 2nd load harder. I was going to try the 777 pellets, but didn't because a friend of mine said that he noticed more build up in the barrel when reloading.

Any thoughts.

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

Yes! You are referring to the 777 crud ring. This has been discussed to no end. Basically you need to use the least powerful primer you can. If you have a rifle that can be converted back to musket caps go that way. If you can only use 209 primers try to go to the coolest which has been noted as CCI However some are reporting accuracy problems with CCI Primers. I would recommed Winchester as they worked as good for me as any. There are conversions available to switch from 209 to a .25ACP piece of brass with a rifle primer installed. Expensive and a bit more problem but it pretty much solves the severe crud ring. I have the conversion and it works. Other option is to eliminate the 777 and try the new Black Mag3 powder which is working great for me so far. It is difficult to find but Midsouth Shooters Supply has it but it requires a $20.00 Hazmat fee so team up with a lot of guys and buy alot at once. If you want to talk more email me at: [email protected]

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

I have heard lots talk about the crud ring but have never experienced it in my Rem 700. I have used both loose and pellet forms of T7 with winchester 209 primers, I swab between each shot with a windex/water solution and dry patch..GTG. I don't bore butter, wonder lube or anything similar in my bore, just clean with hot water, dry patch it, light oil and a few dry patchs to remove the oil prior to firing.

Not sure if I am just lucky or what, just haven't had a prob with T7!

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

With a swab between shots this is not a big problem. I think the majority of the guys that are complaining are expecting to be able to load a couple of shots without a swab between. I know I wanted to do that for follow-up shots on elk if needed. I hunt alone and cannot let them get too far from where I shoot them since I don't want to retrieve them from the bottom of a canyon. Second shots are possible without the swab but not with 777 in my rifle. The powder ring is apparent even with a swab however and is heavier than with other powders in my rifle. I have had my best luck with Winchester primers also. I tried CCI which are supposed to be less of a problem but my accuracy suffered at least on the first attempt.

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

This past weekend on Saturday while hunting I took 3 shoots with loose T7 which equaled 2 coyotes and 1 deer (in that order). Never swabbed between shots, Sunday I cleaned it and no ring!!! I guess I must be lucky[8D].

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

Went to the range over the w/end , 7 shots , no swabs, no ring. 777 loose , guess I'm lucky too

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

I must be getting my 777 from a bad source. If I don't swab between shots the second will not seat on the powder even with a hammer. I have had to take the rifle apart to unload it. Biggest problem is with sabots. Powerbelts are a lot easier to load. You guys didn't mention the bullet that you are using. I have shot three in a row with Black Mag3 and sabots but never with loose 777 or 777 pellets. Sure would be nice as 777 is a little more available since Walmart has started stocking it.

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

MLKeith, I am using the 250 Gr Hornady SST and prior used 240 Gr Hornady XTPs with the same results.

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

One thing that keeps coming up when I talk with people about the 777crud ring is bullet weight. It seems that if you shoot 250gr. or less the problem does not exist as often. I only shoot 300gr. or heavier bullets and I get some crud ring with any combination I shoot (Hornady sabot bullets, Harvester sabots with cast or jacketed bullets, Powerbelts). The other thing is the rifle barrel tightness as well as number of shots down the barrel by the time 777 arrived. My T/C Omega is a real tight barrel and I have only shot less than 50 rounds through it up to now. I have been using T/C saturated patches between shots and maybe the #13 stuff is not helping. I may try the next round with clear Windex with vinegar on the patches. I have had reports that is a good over-the-counter thing to use.

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

I'm using T/C mag express 245 grain 50 cal. in a CVA eclipse loose 777

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

MLKeith, I haven't tried anything above 250 gr with T7 so you might be right. I do have some 300 gr shockwaves that a buddy gave me to try, so might have to do a little testing to see if that changes anything. I suspect the bore fit is a good explanation as well. I know a couple of guys who couldn't use the SST sabot and had to switch to TC sabot due to sizing.

The windex trick works really well for getting out grim I find. Other use windwasher fluid in lieu of windex. I saturate my patch with a spray bottle then ring it out so excess isn't pushed to breech, I place the patch over the bore and push it down into the bore with the jag vs rapping the jag. Using short strokes gradually lengthening and then finish with a couple of dry patchs. If you have excess build up a second wet patch may be required.

Never heard about the adding of vinegar, it is a good cleaner. Be interested to hear your or others results on the vinegar? My mom use it with water to wash windows claiming it is much easier and leaves no streaks to traditional glass cleaners.

MLing is a finky business as many will attest, the only way is T&E and then stick to what works.

Best of luck!

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

I'm Anal with respect to how and what I pour or push down the muzzle of my smoke poles. I have never nor will I ever use pellets. Loose Powder as some have already stated, allows you to tweek the load for a particular gun,distance etc... Loose is much more consistant from load to load than any Pellet. These 2 points are critical in my opinion to get these guns to shoot to there full potential. Just my opinion based on years of experiance shooting these guns. To each is own choice.

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

The Windex with vinegar is the clear one that comes that way over the counter at "Wallyworld". The good thing about it is that it does not have ammonia in it. No blue coloring either.

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

ML are you sure about that Windex not having ammonia in it? I know regular Windex is FULL of ammonia and thats the reason most top quality scope makers dont want it used on their products (it can eat seals up!).

I hope you are right if so I just found my high volume, cheap and easily available scope cleaner,
RA

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

When out shooting I carry a little bottle of the glass cleaner with vinegar in my possibles bag. Also use it to clean the Sharps when out shooting blackpowder cartridges. The stuff is good. Course once home the muzzleloader gets it's bath with hot, soapy water.

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

I thought about purchasing pellets, but went with the 777 powder. Which I've been happy with in my Knight Wolverine 209. I like tweaking my loads with different combos and actually have been quite happy with 90 grains on my last range visit. So the pellets may limit you. Another thing I like about the powder is that I can adjust the loads for the wife or kids when they shoot. I guess you could just use one pellet, but like I said I like tweaking different loads and they can shoot 60 to 70 grains.

The last outing at the range I forgot my cleaning jag (Knight jag broke and had another ramrod at home) and fired at least 4 XTP's and 2 Dead Center's saboted bullets, then made another 3 rounds with Powerbelts and had no problem seating the bullet, but it was starting to get a bit tough.

For the record I have limited experience with my Knight, it's one year old with several good range days. So I'm sure I'll try more combos of powder/bullets in the future.

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

The bottle of Windex multi-surface with vinegar does not smell like amonia. I found a 1-800 number on the bottle and will try a call to them tomorrow during business hours.

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

Even Windex labeled with ammonia has 'far less' ammonia in it per ounce than your typical bottle of copper solvent. Windex is a very weak cleaner... wouldn't surprise me if it's 95% water/alky.

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

Windex does make a cleaner with no ammonia - Windex Pro I believe - It clearly says "No Ammonia"

Also Glass Plus is ammonia free.

These are the products I use for cleaning glass windows on gas fireplaces - any ammonia etches the coating they have.

Steve

RE: Pellets vs. Powder
 

I called the 1-800 number for the Windex Multi-Surface cleaner with vinegar. They told me that this Windex product does NOT have amonia in the mix. It should be OK to use on Scopes. It actually works on windows as I found out today since the wife is having company and the front windows were pretty bad. I had the bottle handy so a couple of squirts and wipe and presto no dirt. Seriously this product seems to work very good on the BP rifle with most of the synthetics.