Go Back  HuntingNet.com Forums > Firearms Forum > Black Powder
Smokeless muzzleloaders >

Smokeless muzzleloaders

Black Powder Ask opinions of other hunters on new technology, gear, and the methods of blackpowder hunting.

Smokeless muzzleloaders

Old 02-20-2002, 07:52 PM
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Gypsum KS USA
Posts: 1,289
Default Smokeless muzzleloaders

What's up with Savage model 10ML??? A smokeless powder muzzleloader??? How can they accomplish this when no one else can? Or is it just that no one else want to? With higher pressure powder, it should be able to create hugely improved velocities, and therefore accuracy and range.
Nomercy is offline  
Old 02-22-2002, 07:56 AM
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Patchogue NY USA
Posts: 2
Default RE: Smokeless muzzleloaders

I just purchased one of these rifles on the recomendation of a couple of my friends. With the use of H 4227 powder and a soboted .45 cal hornady 250 grain bullet they have both shot 1&quot; groups at 100 yds. The cleanup can be done with regular powder solvents, and there is no rush because the powderis smokeless. I haven't shot mine yet but am looking forward to is.<font color=blue></font id=blue>
98aero is offline  
Old 02-22-2002, 05:01 PM
Nontypical Buck
Ruger-Redhawk's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,918
Default RE: Smokeless muzzleloaders

1 shot would be the best to answer this question. He's the one who developed it if I remember correctly? 98aero welcome to the boards. Ruger Redhawk
Ruger-Redhawk is offline  
Old 02-22-2002, 06:34 PM
Giant Nontypical
eldeguello's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
Default RE: Smokeless muzzleloaders

They call these things muzzleloaders, but although the powder and bullet have to be put in from the front end, the primer is contained in a &quot;cartridge case&quot; that is inserted in the breech, with a regular bolt which locks into place behind it to contain the elevated pressures produced by the smokeless powder charge. Hence, they are actually &quot;breech-muzzleloaders&quot;, a hybrid sort of arrangement!! No wonder some states are considering banning these during muzzleloader seasons.

eldeguello is offline  
Old 02-22-2002, 07:20 PM
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baxter Tennessee USA
Posts: 117
Default RE: Smokeless muzzleloaders

I would suggest that you go to the top right side of the page and do a search for savage 10ml or smokeless or something along those lines. It will turn up a wealth of info about this gun. I have one and LOVE IT.
TN_Hunter is offline  
Old 02-24-2002, 05:22 PM
Posts: n/a
Default RE: Smokeless muzzleloaders

Shot my friends yesterday. I wouldn't believe it unless I saw it and shot it. 1.5&quot; groups. Just amazing. I have trouble getting a few of my autoloaders getting those groups. As far as a few states banning their use, who cares, just use Goex in that gun in that state.

There's a range officer at a gun club here in MD that just hates inlines. Yesterday, he was all bent out of shape seeing the savage put those holes in paper. He is convinced that he needs to be told what type of gun he can use by the state and like the fact that states and goverments tell us what to do. He kept saying, &quot;why do you need that gun&quot;, and I kept telling him, because I want to, and It my right be able to. Some people are just busybodies worrying what everyones else is doing. To be honest, I have not increased my blackpowder kills since I have started using inlines, but its another gun to have and fun to shoot. Still, 95% of my shots are under 50 yards.
Old 02-24-2002, 07:27 PM
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,068
Default RE: Smokeless muzzleloaders

One Shot will be along sooner or later to put his two cents worth in. Well, more like twenty-five cents worth. HAHA. I like the smoke from BP.
1950KID is offline  
Old 02-25-2002, 08:34 AM
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greensboro NC USA
Posts: 563
Default RE: Smokeless muzzleloaders

Once again you are correct 1950KID. I am here to put my $.02 in on this subject and to clearify a few items. I like the smoke myself every now and then at the range, but not while I am doing some serious hunting, and while I'm hunting I'm always serious.

Nomercy, The Savage 10ML-II is for real. It has been out for a coupe years now, in 2 different models, the 10ML and the 10ML-II. The 10ML is no longer available, the 10ML-II replaced it. The difference between these two models are: That the 10ML uses percussion modules to carry the 209 primer, the breech plug has a false chamber that the percussion modules fit in, and the bolt has locking lugs. The 10ML-II uses no percusion modules, the breech plug has a 209 primer chamber, and the bolt has no locking lugs. This brings it into full and complete compliance with all BATF regulations as a muzzleloader firearm.

No one can or will step into the smokeless because of patent infringement, lack of vision as to where the sport of muzzleloading is headed, or becuase if liabilty reasons. Before Savage finally accepted our design, we demonstrated it to several other major maunfactures, who declined to accept the design, like Remington, Browning, Knight, Austin/Halleck, T/C, Winshcester, Makesberry, and Weatherby.

Knight, T/C, CVA, and other muzzleloader manufactures for the past several years have been claiming they get 2,200 fps with a 250gr bullet, with 3 50gr pellets of Pyrodex. They are now claiming they get 2,600 fps out of their .45 caliber muzzleloaders. Unlike these voodoo ballistics, the Savage 10ML-II delivers these claimed velocities and more with much smaller charges of smokeless powder. The 10ML-II delivers 2,200 fps with a 300gr bullet and 2,350 fps with a 250gr. That is not that much above those ballistics liste by Knight, T/C, and the others, but the ohters really can't deliver the velocities they calim. So, if you compare the actual velocities the others do deliver with the actual velocities delivered by the 10ML-II, there is a huge difference. With newer powders being tested the difference in performance is even greater. Naturally this equates to longer range performance, but the others are claiming 200yds performance capabilities, but the 10ML-II can do it cleanly, often dropping them in their tracks at 200yds. But the fact of the matter is, 99% of all muzzleloader kills are less than 100yds, more in the range of 75yds. Accuracy of the 10mL-II is good to amazing, with less work and maintenace to maintain accuracy.

Eldeguello, the percussion module is not a &quot;cartridge case&quot;. It is a carrier for the 209 primer, somewhat similar to the plastic disc that the Knight Disc rifle, except that the Knight Disc came out about 4 years after my patent. The 10ML was the only one to use these percussion mdules, and it is no longer being made. It was replaced by the 10ML-II, and the 10ML-II is just as compliant with the BATF regulations as a muzzleloading firearm, as any flintlock ever made. A few states have banned the use of smokeless powder during special muzzleloading seasons, but the 10ML-II is legal in any state that allows in-lines to be used during muzzleloading season. Some states may be considering banning the use of smokeless powder during muzzleloading season, but a few are considering removing the ban or restrictions on smokeless powder as well.
1SHOT_1KILL is offline  
Related Topics
Thread Starter
Last Post
Red Lion
Black Powder
05-30-2007 11:49 PM
Black Powder
07-07-2006 01:49 AM
Black Powder
07-15-2005 06:05 PM
Black Powder
12-04-2003 06:45 AM
Black Powder
10-29-2003 07:59 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Quick Reply: Smokeless muzzleloaders

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.