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Casting for 50 cal muzzy loader

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Old 05-14-2019, 03:05 PM
  #1  
Spike
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Default Casting for 50 cal muzzy loader

i'm thinking about buying a .452 cal 252 gr mould to cast bullets for my 50 cal in line ML. USe with 50 cal plastic sabot. Any pros or cons with this?
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:37 PM
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Well if that's what you want to do then go for it. But you can find good bullets already cast in that size. If it were me and I do cast bullets, I'd cast full bore conicals. You can pick up a 250 gr REAL bullet mold for about $20 and cast away.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:57 PM
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Depending on the lead alloy and the type of mold, the bullets may not cast the perfect size.
Pure lead will shrink a little which is okay, especially for muzzle loader molds.
Molds for modern bullets are made to use with a lead alloy, if the alloy is harder then they may end up a little large, you never know unless you try.
Why not try some .451 or .452 lead bullets of a similar weight and see how they shoot first?
There's also .429 - .430 lead bullets that are just about the same weight
They may even have a better sectional density.
Sometimes the type of sabots and powder make more of a difference than the bullets.
Other times the bullets just won;t shoot straight no matter what you do.
I do prefer sabots because they don't wear out the rifling at all compared to bore size bullets, unless you have a nitride coated bore.

Last edited by arcticap; 05-15-2019 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:26 AM
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LBT and Accurate molds offer molds just for sabots.

Smooth sided. Here is Accurate's 255S. They have another 250ish gr with a larger metplat also
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=45-255S-D.png
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:22 PM
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No way will a pure lead bullet wear out the rifling of a muzzleloader Cap. Worse case you may lead it up but pure lead is entirely too soft to do any damage to rifling. Even bullets cast with linotype or tin added to the lead will not hurt the rifling.
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bronko22000 View Post
No way will a pure lead bullet wear out the rifling of a muzzleloader Cap. Worse case you may lead it up but pure lead is entirely too soft to do any damage to rifling. Even bullets cast with linotype or tin added to the lead will not hurt the rifling.
There's room for differing opinions about wear of a muzzle loader barrel and what can cause it.
I tried to do some research but most [not all] is about breech loading guns.
But it does seem that projectiles can act like a lap in conjunction with the powder residue of which only 50% is actually burned and the leftover ash which is mostly carbon can be an abrasive.
There's also muzzle wear from loading just as there's ram rod abuse, depending on the ramrod material and the use of a muzzle protector.
If as Sam Fadela says that some barrels need a couple of hundred shots to break in, then one would think that they can also wear out over time.
I have a 2nd hand 50-60 year old muzzle loader with plenty of noticeable barrel wear.

There's heat, gas cutting, abrasive ingredients and by-products of the powder, the hardness and abrasiveness of the lead, alloy or other bullet ingredients and material.
There's a scale of factors that can cause more or less wear, although some would basically ignore them as not being major wear factors altogether.
It was mentioned that antimony in lead alloy can have the form of sharp, crystallized cutting edges embedded within the lead.

While some folks consider match grade barrel accuracy to degrade more quickly, others believe that they remain serviceable as hunting rifles for a much longer period of time, lifetimes in some cases.
Much less than a lifetime for others.
But that doesn't mean that they don't eventually lose their match grade accuracy and many muzzle loader shooters do notice it too, but perhaps they're not all inlines made from the top shelf steel either.

Another factor is that some inlines have shallow rifling that may not be best suited for the same conicals that were originally designed for the deeper groove rifling of traditional sidelock muzzle loaders.
Just like why paper patching is more suitable for some guns and not others.
It's not just the wear factor, but the best match of the bullet or type of projectile for the gun.

I did find one thread here where bronko22000 posted about barrel erosion and the use of heavy powder charges [See Post #24] --->>> Muzzleloader Barrels, care, breaking in and life spans

Everything needs to be understood in the context of to what degree do some factors create more or less wear on a bore than others.
They can be scaled in a relative sense, but it's very difficult to quantify all of them with any precision as to how long any barrel will last.
For most it's a non-issue, but for some others it might be.
In the end it's still all about which style of projectile does the shooter prefers for their gun.
I have less of an issue shooting a traditional style conical through a traditional sidelock than with an inline.
But usually not too many due to my personal preference and shooting results.

Last edited by arcticap; 05-18-2019 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:20 AM
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Shallow grooves are super common for inline MLs intended for conicals or sabots. Same specs work just fine for sabots. Just take one look at Knight and White Rifles shooting records and barrel specs. Usually under .040 groove depth for 45 and .050 or less for 50cals.

I think if you actually shot MORE and read LESS stuff on the net you would have a better opinion to offer. You come up with some of the oddest claims with no first hand experience or evidence to back it up. Quality modern steel barrels will hold up to a lifetime of shooting if well cared for. My highest shot count 45 shows zero signs of any changes from a almost exclusive diet of sabotless shooting. Bullets i sized the same from day one still load with the same resistance today.

Last edited by Gm54-120; 05-17-2019 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:25 AM
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Yes but we're talking apples and oranges here. I was referring to lead bullets not able to wear a barrel out. My post on another thread was dealing with barrel erosion which normally occurs near the breech.
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Old 05-18-2019, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Gm54-120 View Post
I think if you actually shot MORE and read LESS stuff on the net you would have a better opinion to offer. You come up with some of the oddest claims with no first hand experience or evidence to back it up..
Perhaps if you read more and criticized less. you would stay on topic and learn something useful rather than make personal attacks.
It's okay to attack the message but not the messenger.

"...As a generality, saboted projectiles offer both accuracy and external ballistic benefits that make them an easy choice over under-bore bullets (“conicals”) that have a propensity to rattle down your bore. There are exceptions, of course, but shooting a bullet without a sabot is akin to shooting a patch and ball, but without the patch..... " --->>> https://www.chuckhawks.com/fundament...r_accuracy.htm

When you tried to insult another forum member for inquiring about an 8 year old for sale thread of mine, the fellow ended up buying another of the same Knight model from me at a good price.
You really should learn how to not be so rude to other forum members and to M.Y.O.B..[SEE POST #4]--->>> NIB Knight Revolution .50 Stainless w/Black Stock

Last edited by arcticap; 05-18-2019 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:56 AM
  #10  
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What does the article have to do with WEARING OUT a bore. Again you copy and paste some garbage from a source who is questionable at best.

Rattle down a bore?...come on thats nonsense and if you knew anything about conicals you would know there are many of them that are far from undersized. Such as Great Plains, Maxi balls and REALS. Its far from the "norm" for conicals to be slip fit.

Here is a great PRO for a lead conical.....No short starter needed even if its .002 over land size....How do i know....I actually do it....Not just copy and paste something ive read. When you actually DO something its easier to spot the BS posted on the net.
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