kellyguinn

I have been shooting the TC shockwave in 250 grains with 100 grains of pyrodex for a while now. The round is extremely accurate for me out to 200 yrds. My problem is I get very little blood trail from this combo out of my TC Omega. This past week was the last straw. I shot a very nice 8pt from 60 yrds. The shot flipped the buck over and he laid there on his back with leg in the air for 30 sec or so before rolling over and sitting his head up. When I went to pull the ram rod out to reload to get another one in him so he didn't suffer he heard it slide out looked up at me and bolted over the hill. I looked for 3 full days for this buck and couldn't find a single drop of blood. Even brought a tracking dog in with no success. This is the 4th deer over the last 7 years that I have lost when I know I have a good hit and can't find blood. Anyway looking for advice on a round that will get good expansion yet still pass through up to 200 yrds. Most of my shots will be under 100 but since I do most of my hunting in western Oklahoma there is a good chance of going up to 200. Wouldn't push it past that though. Was looking as some of Barnes offerings but really want to hear from those that have experience and won't jerk my chain so here I am lol

t.shaffer

the same happened with me using shockwaves. i started using fpb's & it was a little better . finally switched over to barnes tez's & barnes 300 grain expanders . have not lost 1 deer since. mostly drop right there & die right there have had 2 go aprox 60 yrds . i fill your pain brother just makes you sick inside to never find the deer .

sabotloader

Kelly, first let me warn you, I am not a fan of pointy bullets in a muzzleloader - but mostly at close range. Often we load a ML to give us the power and accuracy that we might need to 200 yards - well I do.... but I know full wel my average shot is going to be in the 60 yard and under area... but than again I might get a big one at 175 or beyond better to be prepared

The trouble is the pointy bullet especially in a deer at close ranges mat and most often does pencil pass right through unless you shoot through a major bone - very little if any expansion.

I would highly recommend you might take a look at this new(er) bullet that Lehigh Defense is offering.



It is a 451x230 and will fit the tighter bore TC's and CVA's very well. It is really accurate to 200+ yards and carries a decent amount of energy with it. But I am shooting T7 or BH powder, so I am getting a little lore muzzle velocity than you might shooting one of the Pyro's.

The title tag on this bullet is .451x230CF-HP, which represents a different theory in operation. It does not work as typical expanding bullet. In fact it doesn't start expanding until it encounter a fluid atmosphere. So in reality you can shoot it through the shoulder bone, it will not expand until it reaches the fluids and organs in the chest cavity. At that point the nose will open and the petals will separate. When the open to 40* the six petals will come of the nose of the bullet and move out puncturing the adjacent organs in the cavity. The six grain petals do not have enough energy to move through meat tissue so that is not a problem. The core of the bullet representing the greater mass then becomes a cutting tool and creates 'hydrostatic pressure' to further stir up the internals. Most often the bullet will pass completely through providing a blood letting exit hole.

This picture shows an example of the core of the bullet after the petals have been released. You can see in the picture the sharp cutting edges of the bullet. Also look at the center of the bullet and see the small concave cup in the center... as the bullet is passing though the chest cavity it collects liquid and forces it out and upward providing additional 'hydrostatic shock' in the chest cavity.



Normally the all of these effects added together will over-ride the animals 'flight' response resulting in a whole lot less tracking...

hunters_life

My sister uses 220gr Lehigh .458 Controlled Fracturing stuffed down in Harvester crushed rib. She's been using that combo for a little bit now and 6 deer later I can tell you there has been no need of a blood trail. Only one of those 6 took a step and it was just a few with it's nose in the dirt. But they did all have a pass through with the back portion of the bullet that doesn't fracture off and blood everywhere. I used them sabotless in my smokeless and dropped a couple of Caribou and they performed flawlessly. I would go over to Lehighs site and order up whatever CF muzzleloading bullet they have that you think will fit your Omega and give some a test run. They aren't target bullets but out to 200, Alex hits my 6 inch gong with alarming regularity. And that's with a little TC impact with that combo sitting on top of 90gr BH. Those .458's are a tad tight to start but BH likes a tight fit anyway. https://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/muzzleloader They don't have those 220gr 458's that Tom sent her a ton of but they do have the 230's, 240's and 265's in .451 and .452. You could also try out the Bloodlines. Same maker, same bullets just branded by Knight. Several folks around here use them and love them.

Gm54-120

100gr of Pyro and a SST/Shockwave is a very slow load. By the time it reaches 200yards its a dud. Your Omega is perfectly capable of igniting Blackhorn209 without any modifications. The same volumetric equivalent of BH209 will be nearly 200fps faster. Thats still a bit slow for 200 yard expansion reliability though using that bullet. Run the numbers, i think you will see even the Barnes TEZ is losing quite a bit of speed by the time it reaches 200 yards. Under 1200fps and its a crap shoot on whether its going to expand as designed. Barnes lists that bullet as having a .195 BC. IF you started at 1900fps its down to 1262fps at sea level. You wont get anywhere near 1900 fps from 100gr of Pyrodex.

The best cheap combo i can think of is the Speer 300gr DeepCurl, Black CrushRib and around 105-110gr of BH209. Ron has captured a few at various ranges with this load and it shines for this application.
http://www.rchs61.org/P1000740.JPG

kellyguinn

If I was going to try the Lehigh would the black CrushRIb sabot be the correct one for the TC Omega? All the rounds I have used in the past always came with the sabot so I never even considered getting other types or sizes. Doing this research was the first time I have heard that different manufactures of .50 cal muzzle loaders have different bore barrels. Looks like I will be spending some quality time at the range before next years season lol

That Speer looks good as well. I am not dead set on the pyrodex it is just what I found to be easy and accurate when using the shockwaves. I did try to use 777 pellets as well with powerbelts and the first shot with a clean barrel was always dead on but after that I couldn't find the paper at 100 yrds. If going with the Blackhorn is there a good speedloader that will hold the powder and with bullet that I could take in the field with me?

Thank yall for the responses as I feel I am actually learning a few thing that I never even considered before.

kellyguinn

Yes sir. I spent 3 full days looking and even passed up a larger 150" 8pt the following day because I was sure I would find the one I shot. Wounding an animal makes me sick. I know eventually it will happen but I try and do everything in my power to prevent it.

Gm54-120

Harvester Black Crushrib is a favorite sabot for the T/Cs in general and them Lehighs are very good bullets. They are machined and not swaged like Barnes.

Lane advertises his tubes in the classifieds here and on Ebay. Lots of us use his tubes or something similar to them for loads. Just weigh or measure your loads at home and store them in the tubes. I weigh Blackhorn simply because i know the weight to volume conversion and it works fine in my ChargeMaster 1500. DONT use that kind of dispenser with other ML powders!!!!

Another thing about Blackhorn 209 is it cleans up with regular solvents like Hoppes. Water never needs to touch your bore again. Its FAR less corrosive than Pyrodex.

BarnesAddict

Having shot many whitetail, what I know for certain is, shot placement is everything. Shoot an animal to high, even through the lungs, and it can take the entire body cavity to fill before major blood loss. That's not saying that its a bad shot, its just that many times there can be very little blood until the body cavity fills. However, if the point of impact is lower, say heart or top of heart, there's much less cavity to fill before heavy blood loss. You can harvest with a marble, but shot placement is everything. Barnes Expanders or T-EZ bullets driven with 110 to 120grs of BH, will handle any whitetail at 200yds.
Note:

sabotloader

I use the MMP HPH-24, but I am shooting a Knight (.5015 Bore). Depending on the age of your Omega you might have a slightly tight or loose barrel. But in any case the 'Crush Rib' should cover the barrel differences very well.

The Speer GM suggested is a very good bullet - I call them a 'Poor Mans' Nosler Partition. And the do work very well. I have not conferred with Scott about this yet - I did try the Barnes 50x250 XPB full bore but at extended range could not get the expansion I thought should have. Barnes does make a MZ-Expander and it is designed to work at ML velocities. I use the Lehigh because it offers greater 'Terminal Performance' and at my age that is really important for me.

Just my feeling but 'pellets' are not the best choice in the world.

Sure! there are several... I really like this one



The Omega is probably the best ML that TC ever built and as already suggest the Omega BP can soot BH very well - even better if the plug were modified.