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Originally Posted by 1874sharpsshooter
(Post 4325155)
More nonsense : but you keep telling yourself that . You sound like a poster child for marketing brain washing
Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it Worked for Hitler , works for CVA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law If you don't care for CVA's that's cool, but you shouldn't let a simple internet discussion turn you in to that guy. ;) |
Originally Posted by d.winsor
(Post 4325156)
I don’t think I am reading this wrong, there are still people bashing CVA, in a thread called “What is Brand Bashing”.
One thing I have not heard of is where all this hate comes from. It does not seem normal. The biggest thing I have heard is “it is a proven fact!” when nothing has been proven at all, just general statements. Whenever it comes to discussing some point of why CVA is better or not, there is always a change of the subject being discussed at the time. So, I would really like to hear from you CVA haters, “What is your personal experience for hating CVA”. Was it a purchase that went wrong? Maybe a model of gun you felt cheated with. Or a Warranty that was not honored or Bad service! Waiting paitiently. If they had done something maybe my attitude would be different . I been shooting muzzleloaders for 45 years and don’t like it when some one who answers a phone for customer service treats me like I am just ignorant and I ended up stuck with a bad gun. So that’s why . For a few years I often thought that if they apologized and replaced the gun then I wouldn’t say anything bad but that obviously didn’t happen so I will take every opportunity to share how I feel about CVA The gun was a 45 cal Kodiak. ( omega copycat) |
Originally Posted by IAhuntr
(Post 4325150)
Yeah, that's why CVA is the market leader, because they're crappy.:rolleye0011:
Yes, I will keep plugging my crappy CVA,...with bullets. And I'll be enjoying it as it keeps punching the x-ring at 100 yards. Crappy good times. You might not have noticed but CVA has gotten much better while other brands have fallen off in recent years. Any idea why the easiest way to get a TC to shoot better is to throw a Begara barrel on it? CVA is the market leader because they've flooded the market with cheaply priced and lower quality muzzleloaders. Not saying that they won't shoot, because they will, to a point. It doesn't even take common sense to know, low priced items will never have the highest quality parts. However, punching the x-ring at 100yds is a chip shot, easily completed by just about any modern inline made today, with the right shooter on the trigger. The last TC and all previous Encore platform rifles I owned, which were many, ALL shot less than moa with the factory barrel at 200yds. |
Originally Posted by IAhuntr
(Post 4325158)
Uh,oh. Looks like you need to work on your game:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law If you don't care for CVA's that's cool, but you shouldn't let a simple internet discussion turn you in to that guy. ;) I stand by what I said |
Originally Posted by d.winsor
(Post 4325156)
I don’t think I am reading this wrong, there are still people bashing CVA, in a thread called “What is Brand Bashing”.
One thing I have not heard of is where all this hate comes from. It does not seem normal. The biggest thing I have heard is “it is a proven fact!” when nothing has been proven at all, just general statements. Whenever it comes to discussing some point of why CVA is better or not, there is always a change of the subject being discussed at the time. So, I would really like to hear from you CVA haters, “What is your personal experience for hating CVA”. Was it a purchase that went wrong? Maybe a model of gun you felt cheated with. Or a Warranty that was not honored or Bad service! Waiting paitiently. A) CVA released some products with a poorly designed barrel about 20 years ago, which was very serious mistake but has since been remedied, yet the CVA haters are latching onto that issue like a life preserver just for the sake of some sort of argument. or B) They hate the fact that a very competitively priced rifle shoots so good, cleans up so easily, and is leaving their favorite brand in the rearview mirror as far as market share and customer satisfaction goes. Likely a bit of both. . |
Originally Posted by 1874sharpsshooter
(Post 4325159)
It was a gun that was bad and when I contacted CVA they treated my badly , wouldn’t do anything . I got rid of all CVAs and haven’t liked them every since
If they had done something maybe my attitude would be different . I been shooting muzzleloaders for 45 years and don’t like it when some one who answers a phone for customer service treats me like I am just ignorant and I ended up stuck with a bad gun. So that’s why . For a few years I often thought that if they apologized and replaced the gun then I wouldn’t say anything bad but that obviously didn’t happen so I will take every opportunity to share how I feel about CVA The gun was a 45 cal Kodiak. ( omega copycat) |
Originally Posted by BarnesAddict
(Post 4325160)
LOL......... something to do I guess.....
CVA is the market leader because they've flooded the market with cheaply priced and lower quality muzzleloaders. Not saying that they won't shoot, because they will, to a point. It doesn't even take common sense to know, low priced items will never have the highest quality parts. However, punching the x-ring at 100yds is a chip shot, easily completed by just about any modern inline made today, with the right shooter on the trigger. The last TC and all previous Encore platform rifles I owned, which were many, ALL shot less than moa with the factory barrel at 200yds. |
Originally Posted by d.winsor
(Post 4325164)
Was that the old CVA or the New CVA Manufacturer?
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Originally Posted by BarnesAddict
(Post 4325160)
LOL......... something to do I guess.....
CVA is the market leader because they've flooded the market with cheaply priced and lower quality muzzleloaders. Not saying that they won't shoot, because they will, to a point. It doesn't even take common sense to know, low priced items will never have the highest quality parts. However, punching the x-ring at 100yds is a chip shot, easily completed by just about any modern inline made today, with the right shooter on the trigger. The last TC and all previous Encore platform rifles I owned, which were many, ALL shot less than moa with the factory barrel at 200yds. As far as your low quality statement, I disagree there. My Nitride-coated Bergara made barrel is guaranteed against rust pitting for the life of the gun. Any of their competitors stand behind their product the same? As I stated earlier, my needs are to accurately and reliably shoot at a target at 250 yards or less, and have the least issues with cleaning, loading, corrosion, while having minimal weight to haul around the woods. CVA checked all those boxes. |
Originally Posted by 1874sharpsshooter
(Post 4325168)
New. ...........
Since there will be no justice for me from knight the only thing I can do is move on. Like you with CVA, I will not purchase another one as long as I live, But I am not going to let them control how I live my life, I don't want to be angry all the time. There is nothing I can do about it but give my recommendations where appropriate. That I will do. You should also. Have a good day. |
Originally Posted by d.winsor
(Post 4325166)
So you have never had any personal experience related to CVA that would justify your hating them! Does something always have to have high priced parts to be a quality item?
They are not the best ergonomically designed rifle. And before you want to go off on what ergonomics is, or what CVA might call ergonomics, you should know that I'm a retired Ergonomist. I'll bet CVA never had an Ergonomist review their rifles and most likely no one there can spell it correctly or know what an Ergonomist does. I don't own CVA rifles and won't. I don't care for anything about them. However, if you go back and read my prior comments, you'll see where I've set them up for their owners and have shot many of them. I do not like the fit or feel of any of the different models. IMO the only decent rifle they made, they quit making and that was the Apex. When there are multiple ways to make a product, the least costly way to make whatever product you're making, is to use lessor quality parts. Its simple business 101. Lessor quality parts cost less than high quality parts for the same product, regardless the product. Lessor quality parts for products are a huge contributing factor when it comes to recalls, regardless of the recalled product. An..... extreme example..... a kid can create on a 3-D printer a plastic wheel bearing for your auto. Now would you rather use that kid's wheel bearing or a steel wheel bearing you pick up at NAPA? |
Originally Posted by BarnesAddict
(Post 4325178)
Herein lies a big problem we need to fix......... I don't hate CVA rifles. So now that that's straightened out, hopefully, I never cared for CVA rifles or anything about them.
They are not the best ergonomically designed rifle. And before you want to go off on what ergonomics is, or what CVA might call ergonomics, you should know that I'm a retired Ergonomist. I'll bet CVA never had an Ergonomist review their rifles and most likely no one there can spell it correctly or know what an Ergonomist does. I don't own CVA rifles and won't. I don't care for anything about them. However, if you go back and read my prior comments, you'll see where I've set them up for their owners and have shot many of them. I do not like the fit or feel of any of the different models. IMO the only decent rifle they made, they quit making and that was the Apex. When there are multiple ways to make a product, the least costly way to make whatever product you're making, is to use lessor quality parts. Its simple business 101. Lessor quality parts cost less than high quality parts for the same product, regardless the product. Lessor quality parts for products are a huge contributing factor when it comes to recalls, regardless of the recalled product. An..... extreme example..... a kid can create on a 3-D printer a plastic wheel bearing for your auto. Now would you rather use that kid's wheel bearing or a steel wheel bearing you pick up at NAPA? But you say: I never cared for CVA rifles or anything about them? Why because they are not expensive enough for you? You made a statement about CVA not hiring an ergonomics & most likely no one there can spell it correctly. Do you know this for a fact? I personally have never heard of the word. Do you think all other muzzleloader manufactures hired agronomics? The only decent rifle they made is the Apex. Why in your opinion was the Apex so much better? Why are all the other models not decent? I don’t own a CVA rifle and won’t. There is no discussion there, but it is a negative statement that would definitely turn new perspective buyers away. What you say and how you say it appears to me that you are angry with CVA, let’s just say you don’t hate them. Why are you as negative as you can possibly be when you mention CVA? Not only that, why do you have to go into so many things negative about CVA that you can get into one post. I am puzzled, in other posts you say that CVA gets the job done, in the next breath you bash CVA. If you don’t hate CVA why do you bash them at every opportunity? |
Originally Posted by d.winsor
(Post 4325180)
You say you don’t hate CVA.
But you say: I never cared for CVA rifles or anything about them? Why because they are not expensive enough for you? You made a statement about CVA not hiring an ergonomics & most likely no one there can spell it correctly. Do you know this for a fact? I personally have never heard of the word. Do you think all other muzzleloader manufactures hired agronomics? The only decent rifle they made is the Apex. Why in your opinion was the Apex so much better? Why are all the other models not decent? I don’t own a CVA rifle and won’t. There is no discussion there, but it is a negative statement that would definitely turn new perspective buyers away. What you say and how you say it appears to me that you are angry with CVA, let’s just say you don’t hate them. Why are you as negative as you can possibly be when you mention CVA? Not only that, why do you have to go into so many things negative about CVA that you can get into one post. I am puzzled, in other posts you say that CVA gets the job done, in the next breath you bash CVA. If you don’t hate CVA why do you bash them at every opportunity? However, your questions are repetitive and you're still looking for some type of support or answer that fits your current needs. I'm quite sure I am unable to do that. |
Originally Posted by BarnesAddict
(Post 4325183)
Every one of your questions to me has been answered multiple times.
However, your questions are repetitive and you're still looking for some type of support or answer that fits your current needs. I'm quite sure I am unable to do that. |
Well I smell a dissatisfied person in d.winsor. One that seems to try to antagonize. We have all answered your question. Barnesaddict has many times said he hasn't owned one nor does he want to but he has set many up for other people. That suggests to anyone with a small bit of intelligence that he has plenty of experience with many different models of CVA rifles. I never owned a hand grenade but in 12 years in the Corps I surely handled quite a few and can give personal experience in their function. You just haven't gotten the answers, or the bans I am thinking, that you seek. You asked me and others to provide proof, which myself and others did, yet you ignore the answers because they go against your little agenda. CVA has been sued for patent infringement 26 times. Settled out of court 18 times and lost the other 8. They have been sued I don't know how many times for safety infractions causing injury to customers which is why Dikar bought Bergara to hopefully stem the bleeding. I personally refuse to deal with shady companies. Mathews Archery courted my dad and my sister to shoot and advertise for them for years. The old man felt about Mathews the same as CVA. Tech thieves claiming bought or flat out stolen innovation as their own. Single cam? Martin. Parallel Limbs? Rigid, Browning, and even junky Oneida beat Mathews to that ridiculous claim. And BowTech slapped them and made them cry for mommy in the PL limb dept. Weighted cam? Bear. Not a single thing about a Mathews bow can be directly attributed to Mathews only. Probably 65% of their so called innovations come directly from Martin. But they are marketing geniuses and know how to throw advertising dollars at the market.
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Originally Posted by hunters_life
(Post 4325190)
Well I smell a dissatisfied person in d.winsor. One that seems to try to antagonize. We have all answered your question. Barnesaddict has many times said he hasn't owned one nor does he want to but he has set many up for other people. That suggests to anyone with a small bit of intelligence that he has plenty of experience with many different models of CVA rifles. I never owned a hand grenade but in 12 years in the Corps I surely handled quite a few and can give personal experience in their function. You just haven't gotten the answers, or the bans I am thinking, that you seek. You asked me and others to provide proof, which myself and others did, yet you ignore the answers because they go against your little agenda. CVA has been sued for patent infringement 26 times. Settled out of court 18 times and lost the other 8. They have been sued I don't know how many times for safety infractions causing injury to customers which is why Dikar bought Bergara to hopefully stem the bleeding. I personally refuse to deal with shady companies. Mathews Archery courted my dad and my sister to shoot and advertise for them for years. The old man felt about Mathews the same as CVA. Tech thieves claiming bought or flat out stolen innovation as their own. Single cam? Martin. Parallel Limbs? Rigid, Browning, and even junky Oneida beat Mathews to that ridiculous claim. And BowTech slapped them and made them cry for mommy in the PL limb dept. Weighted cam? Bear. Not a single thing about a Mathews bow can be directly attributed to Mathews only. Probably 65% of their so called innovations come directly from Martin. But they are marketing geniuses and know how to throw advertising dollars at the market.
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Your question has been answered and re answered several times by several people. The horse is dead, it's feet are sticking up in the air and it is stinking to high heaven and buzzards are circling it. Way past time to stop beating it!
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Originally Posted by Oldtimr
(Post 4325200)
Your question has been answered and re answered several times by several people. The horse is dead, it's feet are sticking up in the air and it is stinking to high heaven and buzzards are circling it. Way past time to stop beating it!
You people keep speaking for other people, let them speak for themselves and you speak for yourself. If my questions, of which amounts to one, that is why do you people have such disgust for CVA and Brand bash it at every opportunity? For no apparent reason. You yourself have said a lot in a little sentence, but have provided no further clarification to the issue much less the truth. You just make random statements about nothing, to either bash a product or a person. Evidently this horse is not dead as yet, as you keep prodding it, trying to revive it. What you smell is the stench of a hijacked thread that you helped orchestrate and is dying. I don’t know what you think but I have learnt a lot about brand bashing. I have had it explained to me and then have had it demonstrated. What have you learnt? |
Actually I don't care one way or the other about CVA rifles, I just think after the same crap keeps being brought up by a poster time and time again because he doesn't like the answers he got he keeps repeating the same old crap it is time to stop. I think he should be smart and adult enough to let it go, because he is sounding more and more like a petulant child that wants what he wants and wants it now. What is going on now is brand "shilling".
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Originally Posted by lemoyne
(Post 4324975)
This was looking for an answer from a moderator, it does not look like I am going to get one.
Your giving him the exposure he wants by arguing with him I suggest we do not read his posts and never answer them. |
Originally Posted by Oldtimr
(Post 4325204)
Actually I don't care one way or the other about CVA rifles, I just think after the same crap keeps being brought up by a poster time and time again because he doesn't like the answers he got he keeps repeating the same old crap it is time to stop. I think he should be smart and adult enough to let it go, because he is sounding more and more like a petulant child that wants what he wants and wants it now. What is going on now is brand "shilling".
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Originally Posted by lemoyne
(Post 4325206)
This is beyond ridiculous.
Your giving him the exposure he wants by arguing with him I suggest we do not read his posts and never answer them. |
The "original" question was what is brand bashing. That question has been answered publicly by at least 2 mods and several members. The 2nd poster in the topic provided an answer of sorts and also a brand example--CVA. That opened the floodgates for many members' experiences and opinions of CVA, thus providing many examples of both positive and negative opinions of CVA BP rifles based largely on personal experiences and arguably, the difference between bashing versus offering negative personal experiences.
Posting your personal experience is allowed. It gives other members a context to evaluate a purchase or even help explain something they are experiencing with the same product/brand. And it's a large part of why this forum exists. From what I've read so far (I have not read all 10 pages completely yet), both the OP's question on brand bashing and issues with CVA have been covered extensively. I think any reasonable person can now make an educated decision about CVA rifles. If not, there are plenty of members listed in this topic whom they can contact by PM with more specific questions as needed. In my humble mod opinion (IMHMO), this topic has run its' course and the last few pages are getting into rules violation territory. Any further violations will result in a locked topic and offending members receiving temp bans. As always, if you have a mod question, send me a PM and I will answer and discuss it to the best of my ability. Please do not debate mod decisions within the forum as that is also a rules violation. |
Lock Her Up!
Lock Her Up! Lock Her Up! :D |
Originally Posted by WV Hunter
(Post 4325393)
Lock Her Up!
Lock Her Up! Lock Her Up! :D In my humble opinion that is |
Originally Posted by 1874sharpsshooter
(Post 4325416)
I better get one more “ CVA Sucks” plug in just in case :).
In my humble opinion that is Well I guess I sorta was brand bashing... sorry I should have known better :happy0157::happy0157: #MAGA |
We can only hope. :biggrin:
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