A standard ML can roughly match standard 45/70 load data, 50 Beowulf, 458 SOCOM or 450 Bushmaster. If/When i build a 40cal it will be to roughly duplicate 405Win, 300gr bullet at around 2200-2300fps.

There is one huge difference unless you are just super slow reloading a single shot centerfire.

I said that there was no difference in performance GM. I had a Ruger #1 in 405 Win. that was a good shooting rifle.
Heck reloading? With shooting like that who needs to reload!

You don't even need a custom to match the calibers i listed. Pretty much any quality inline can achieve those ballistics and do it accurately. My 54-120 is almost a ballistic duplicate to a 50 Beowulf. I paid a whopping full retail $420 for it.

Ok, I'm totally confused. Are we talking about a ML or a center fired smokeless round? And if it is the second, why is it on this forum?

The mention of centerfired single shots was brought up by Bronko. I used them simply to compare ballistics to modern "smoker" inlines. Velocity, price and powder used are not relevant to the term "muzzle loader". If it loads through the muzzle then obviously its a muzzle loader.

My SML 45cal that will produce 2800fps with a 275g bullet is a Savage MLII with a Pacnor 458 super match grade barrel using smokeless powder. That load is completely safe in my barrel. SML= Smokeless Muzzle Loader".




Whether people dont like it or simply dont agree, this is by definition a muzzle loader and capable of over 2800fps

Swinglock 416

I've only worked up a couple of loads for my SML and can easily reach 2800+. I can probably get safely to 3000+ with a .40/.45 sabot in the 200 grain range. I am discovering a whole new world with that smokeless demon spawn. I've never been that interested in the inlines and never even imagined I would be interested in an SML. But I have to admit, it sure is a hoot to shoot. And being able to hold under 1.5" 5 shot group at 200 yards is a definite plus. Not taking away from my beloved side hammer smokers that will always hold the number 1 spot in my shooting heart. But the inlines and SMLs have their places as well.

Max velocity of my SMLs is pretty low on my list of wants. Ease of cleaning and lack of corrosion after a few days or longer make them sweet. I can sight in during October and not do a thing to them until my November deer season without the slightest concern of rust.

No first shot fliers ect ect.

Cost of powder is also a concern. BH209 per shot is nuts compared to the amount of smokeless i can use to get similar speeds. I can use as little as 39gr of one of them and beat any speed BH209 can manage with Western's approved load data.

So many states won't allow SML during their muzzleloader seasons. Mine included.....

So many?...How many is "so many?"...And you can always use BH209, other subs or real black in a SML. Not a single reason im aware of why you cant.

Another similar bullet but in .402 from Pittman is currently being tested. This one is 225gr and 1.27" long. Rough estimate is you would need about 2300fps in a 1-20 to stabilize. Sabot friendly has yet to be determined but they will be tested fairly soon.