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grain for deer and ??beear

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grain for deer and ??beear

Old 07-17-2017, 06:32 PM
  #11  
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Sabotloader, I've only recovered a couple of XTP's over the years. Haven't really used them a whole lot either since I only own one smoker that will shoot a sabot. But the couple I have recovered held up nicely. No jacket separation and no blowing apart. But I didn't push them really hard either out of that renegade. 80-90gr Swiss FFG. 80gr with the 250gr and 90 with the 300gr. I know, seems backwards but that's the way that rifle likes it. The heavier 300 likes a little hotter load to tighten the group.
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Old 07-17-2017, 06:51 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by hunters_life View Post
Sabotloader, I've only recovered a couple of XTP's over the years. Haven't really used them a whole lot either since I only own one smoker that will shoot a sabot. But the couple I have recovered held up nicely. No jacket separation and no blowing apart. But I didn't push them really hard either out of that renegade. 80-90gr Swiss FFG. 80gr with the 250gr and 90 with the 300gr. I know, seems backwards but that's the way that rifle likes it. The heavier 300 likes a little hotter load to tighten the group.

I would concur with your findings if you shoot them like a PB shouldn't have a problem.


These were shot with 100 grains of T7. And again it is an intermittent problem. It does not occur each time especially if you miss a big bone - but since I can not predict when they might come apart - I have passed on them and went with Gold Dots/Deep Curls at the time.


Gold Dots at the time Deep Curls today shot in the same medium as the Hornady's were





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Old 07-17-2017, 07:02 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by sabotloader View Post
It can come apart like most any Hornady pistol bullet shot in a ML.
You make that sound like a bad thing. My experience killing animals with a muzzleloader has shown me the biggest problem with the bullets used, is they don't work i.e. they don't do anything, except make a hole. The only failures i have experienced is the bullets just punched small holes through lungs, and the animals ran for what seemed forever. Me, i welcome a bullet like the XTP, that will expand, and/or separate some. When a bullet does separate, the tissue of the animal is horribly damaged. This is a good thing. What is not to like?















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Old 07-17-2017, 07:11 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by hunters_life View Post
.......... just a water jug test really isn't that much of test for tough hide and heavy boned animals such as a black bear......
This isn't 'just' a water jug test. The carpet, and plywood cause all kind of problems for bullets, and many fail to work in these tests. The results of the bullets used on game, and tested, are very very similar. Bullets that worked good in this testing also worked good on game. Bullets that didn't work good on game, don't work good in these test.



RESULTS
















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Old 07-17-2017, 07:17 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by ronlaughlin View Post
You make that sound like a bad thing. My experience killing animals with a muzzleloader has shown me the biggest problem with the bullets used, is they don't work i.e. they don't do anything, except make a hole. The only failures i have experienced is the bullets just punched small holes through lungs, and the animals ran for what seemed forever. Me, i welcome a bullet like the XTP, that will expand, and/or separate some. When a bullet does separate, the tissue of the animal is horribly damaged. This is a good thing. What is not to like?

For me it is a non desired action.


It really depends on where the separation occurs and where you might find the bits of lead that come apart.


The copper is usually found between the skin and the bone and the lead broken apart some where else very little penetration. And then other times it will do it's job very well even with a complete exit.


But again as has been mention shot it like a pistol not a rifle bullet and it will work as promised.


Again for myself I prefer a bullet that I feel I can predict what it will do.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:08 PM
  #16  
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Default XTP Prediction

My prediction is the XTP will shoot right through a deer every time i pull the trigger, and my aim is true. The XTP will fly right through the deer, and in doing so, the bullet will get upset by the force exerted on it by the tissue of the animal. The force the tissue exerts reshaping the bullet, will cause life ending damage to the tissue, and the deer life will end.

The very worst thing that can happen to a hunter, is if the bullet can be refired, because the tissue didn't exert a force on it. A bullet that is reshaped the most, causes the most tissue damage, because it requires the most force, which comes from the tissue.

A non desired action is when the bullet is traveling slow enough, the tissue doesn't reshape the bullet.












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Old 07-17-2017, 08:34 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by ronlaughlin View Post
My prediction is the XTP will shoot right through a deer every time i pull the trigger, and my aim is true. The XTP will fly right through the deer, and in doing so, the bullet will get upset by the force exerted on it by the tissue of the animal. The force the tissue exerts reshaping the bullet, will cause life ending damage to the tissue, and the deer life will end.

The very worst thing that can happen to a hunter, is if the bullet can be refired, because the tissue didn't exert a force on it. A bullet that is reshaped the most, causes the most tissue damage, because it requires the most force, which comes from the tissue.

A non desired action is when the bullet is traveling slow enough, the tissue doesn't reshape the bullet.___


Good thing about this you can believe what you think!
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:24 PM
  #18  
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ronlaughlin, that carpet and plywood doesn't even come close to the hide,thick fur, and heavy bone structure of a black bear. I would imagine it simulates whitetail quite well. Remember, the original poster specified both whitetail as well as bear and I am assuming he meant black bear. In my younger days when we still lived in Tennessee, I hunted black bear all over the smokey mountains and in both the Carolinas. Some in our family, not dad or me, loved bear meat and I loved hunting them. I can tell you with absolute certainty that a black bear is many times tougher than a whitetail. A big boar hit in the shoulder with anything other than a very strong bullet will not go down as easily as some seem to think. That heavy coat of fur has a cushioning effect and will absorb a lot of energy. Then you have some fairly massive shoulder hide and muscle and then you get to the bone. I've actually cut into a few boar bears that had somewhat of a shield not unlike that on a boar hog where they had been rubbing. I'm in now way saying they are bulletproof but anyone hunting them with a muzzleloader better damn well use a bullet they know will hold together and penetrate fully to anchor one. Anything else is just plain old foolery. I've foolishly taken a few with patched roundball using my harder cast bullets. Most I tucked in behind the shoulder and had excellent results. But there were a couple that I hit dead center shoulder and had a very upset bear to deal with.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:26 PM
  #19  
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Fellers these critters are invincible. Bears are not difficult to kill if you shoot them in the lungs. I have killed several bears in my lifetime. I used trad bows and compounds, muzzleloaders, pistols and rifles. The well placed shot is king. I would advise that if you have to hunt with a prb get a bigger gun. Otherwise, a bullet combo that shoots accurate and is capable of taking whitetail will work. I have killed a slew of hogs and I have never seen no armor. Yeah they got gristle but that ain't no armor and it's not grown as a protective measure against arrows or bullets. I don't shoot 338 plat PB's. Honestly they are too costly. I'm sure they would kill a bear but if you push them to hard you can get mixed results. Just my 2 cents, but why is it a penny for your thoughts?
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:33 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by hunters_life View Post
.............that carpet and plywood doesn't even come close to the hide,thick fur, and heavy bone structure of a black bear.............
Of course not. However, the tests are an indicator of bullet performance. If you look at the test results you will see that the 300g Deep Curl did not penetrate as deep as the 300g Power Belt, nor as deep as the 300g XTP. Opinions are opinions, data are real results. Data are data. Folk are certainly welcome to their opinion........

To me it seems one datum is worth more than a jillion opinions, but that is just my opinion.













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