Unsupported Shooting
02-03-2017 | 04:40 PM
#72
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,557
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
I'll give you a tip I've never seen on the internet before. It's not completely unsupported but it's in line with a pretty standard practice of getting up against a tree at the least if you have to stand to shoot.
In that situation, every person I've ever seen do it will try to trap the gun between their supporting hand some how to steady the gun against the tree while they stand there trying to get the gun steady on the target to take a shot with the front sight at least making a little slower figure eights crossing over the target.
Just a suggestion but next time you have your rifle out set your self up for that shot situation, may be up against a post or something. Look down that barrel and watch the sights over the center of the target and note the improve steadiness you have achieved.
Now, don't pull the trigger.
Back up about one step. Take your BEST OFF HAND HOLD YOU KNOW get the barrel NEAR the post you WERE leaning against. Now in your best off hand shot position, just touch the END of the barrel against the post enough to make it stay there and look at your sight picture.
Take a couple shots from that position and see if that isn't a whole lot better results than leaning against the post and balancing the rifle against the post in the mid length of the rifle closer to the trigger.
I've not had a rifle I own yet that it affected barrel harmonics enough that it was still a better shot than with the barrel OFF the support. At least not at the distances I can count on a heart shot shooting off hand.
It's still not "exactly" shooting off hand unsupported. But it is something you can combine with every other skill you have or learn to improve off hand shooting.
Same principle can apply to shooting hand guns at longer ranges while standing. If you have the choice between resting your hand against the tree to steady it or the barrel, rest the end of the barrel near the sight or just touch it against the tree to stop the "waving" sight picture.
In that situation, every person I've ever seen do it will try to trap the gun between their supporting hand some how to steady the gun against the tree while they stand there trying to get the gun steady on the target to take a shot with the front sight at least making a little slower figure eights crossing over the target.
Just a suggestion but next time you have your rifle out set your self up for that shot situation, may be up against a post or something. Look down that barrel and watch the sights over the center of the target and note the improve steadiness you have achieved.
Now, don't pull the trigger.
Back up about one step. Take your BEST OFF HAND HOLD YOU KNOW get the barrel NEAR the post you WERE leaning against. Now in your best off hand shot position, just touch the END of the barrel against the post enough to make it stay there and look at your sight picture.
Take a couple shots from that position and see if that isn't a whole lot better results than leaning against the post and balancing the rifle against the post in the mid length of the rifle closer to the trigger.
I've not had a rifle I own yet that it affected barrel harmonics enough that it was still a better shot than with the barrel OFF the support. At least not at the distances I can count on a heart shot shooting off hand.
It's still not "exactly" shooting off hand unsupported. But it is something you can combine with every other skill you have or learn to improve off hand shooting.
Same principle can apply to shooting hand guns at longer ranges while standing. If you have the choice between resting your hand against the tree to steady it or the barrel, rest the end of the barrel near the sight or just touch it against the tree to stop the "waving" sight picture.
If someone isn't good at offhand shooting. They should try shooting from a knee. It's only a second of two slower than offhand and doesn't depend on any sort of rest being handy.
02-03-2017 | 05:41 PM
#73
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,823
Likes: 5
From: Eastern PA
I cannot believe that touching the end off the barrel on any object doesn't affect barrel harmonics. That goes against all laws of physics. Any contact with the barrel at any point will affect POI of the bullet to some degree. I wouldn't trust doing this on any shot beyond 50 yards. And I that range I know I can put a bullet in a deer's vitals 10 times out of 10 offhand.
But the reason I believe Ron is practicing shooting offhand is twofold. One is to better himself and the other is to improve his shot chances at game. I've seen some of the pictures of the game he has taken and the terrain he hunts. Not much in the way of natural rests/supports. He has to rely on his own shooting sticks or take an offhand shot. Ron please correct me if I'm wrong.
But the reason I believe Ron is practicing shooting offhand is twofold. One is to better himself and the other is to improve his shot chances at game. I've seen some of the pictures of the game he has taken and the terrain he hunts. Not much in the way of natural rests/supports. He has to rely on his own shooting sticks or take an offhand shot. Ron please correct me if I'm wrong.
Last edited by bronko22000; 02-03-2017 at 05:44 PM.
02-03-2017 | 07:23 PM
#74
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: Rapid City, South Dakota
There are two types of country i can hunt. The Great Plains, and the Mountains.
The vast majority of the shots i have taken on the plains were from prone. Utilizing the terrain, i have been able to sneak closer, and get good prone shots. Sometimes spooked Mule Deer will run off until they feel safe, and stop. Getting ready, allows one to make a good prone shot. A couple of times i made kills when both the deer, and myself were surprised. These two kills were made off hand, and weren't far. One other kill was made standing using sticks.
In the mountains i always try to make shots bracing on trees, but about half the time this isn't possible, and i have always successfully taken off hand shots. These days i am kinda more shaky. This year i took two shots off hand, because i couldn't get to a tree without spooking the deer. The first shot i missed clean. The second shot was a gut shot. Luckily the 300g XTP hurt the deer enough, it ran a very short distance, and lay down. Me walking up on it spooked it into running further, but it hurt enough it lay down again, and i killed it.
These two misses this year is what led me to start practicing my off hand shooting.
..
The vast majority of the shots i have taken on the plains were from prone. Utilizing the terrain, i have been able to sneak closer, and get good prone shots. Sometimes spooked Mule Deer will run off until they feel safe, and stop. Getting ready, allows one to make a good prone shot. A couple of times i made kills when both the deer, and myself were surprised. These two kills were made off hand, and weren't far. One other kill was made standing using sticks.
In the mountains i always try to make shots bracing on trees, but about half the time this isn't possible, and i have always successfully taken off hand shots. These days i am kinda more shaky. This year i took two shots off hand, because i couldn't get to a tree without spooking the deer. The first shot i missed clean. The second shot was a gut shot. Luckily the 300g XTP hurt the deer enough, it ran a very short distance, and lay down. Me walking up on it spooked it into running further, but it hurt enough it lay down again, and i killed it.
These two misses this year is what led me to start practicing my off hand shooting.
..
02-03-2017 | 07:50 PM
#76
Typical Buck
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 866
Likes: 0
Proper use of a shooting sling alone will probably double just toughing it out mountain man style and it will let you stand there with a rifle on target 10 minutes or more waiting on a deer to take one more step, AND hold the rifle there ON TARGET the whole time. I've done it many times waiting on a beaver to "just come back out of that hole" one more time, just using the hasty sling.
Last edited by Jack Ryan; 02-03-2017 at 07:58 PM.
02-03-2017 | 08:03 PM
#77
Typical Buck
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 866
Likes: 0
I cannot believe that touching the end off the barrel on any object doesn't affect barrel harmonics. That goes against all laws of physics. Any contact with the barrel at any point will affect POI of the bullet to some degree. I wouldn't trust doing this on any shot beyond 50 yards. And I that range I know I can put a bullet in a deer's vitals 10 times out of 10 offhand.
But the reason I believe Ron is practicing shooting offhand is twofold. One is to better himself and the other is to improve his shot chances at game. I've seen some of the pictures of the game he has taken and the terrain he hunts. Not much in the way of natural rests/supports. He has to rely on his own shooting sticks or take an offhand shot. Ron please correct me if I'm wrong.
But the reason I believe Ron is practicing shooting offhand is twofold. One is to better himself and the other is to improve his shot chances at game. I've seen some of the pictures of the game he has taken and the terrain he hunts. Not much in the way of natural rests/supports. He has to rely on his own shooting sticks or take an offhand shot. Ron please correct me if I'm wrong.
When that steel rang at a distance I'd NEVER HIT IT STANDING before I knew I had to try this again, and again, and again... Then I knew I had a useful tool in the field worth putting in my bag of tricks. I've been testing it and using it about a year or so now and this thread is the very first time I've ever shared it. So far so good with every rifle I've used it with. Try it out, see what happens. I'm not asking to BUY it or anything. It's free.
ONE RIFLE I've NOT used this tip with and I would not expect much from is a Handy Rifle. They are VERY picky about that kind of thing and make huge differences even from a bench on where you put the support even on the wood and even worse when people REST the barrel on sand bags or any kind of bench set up.
Last edited by Jack Ryan; 02-03-2017 at 08:10 PM.
02-06-2017 | 11:41 AM
#78
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: Rapid City, South Dakota
Different rifle
Beins' how i cannot really focus on the front sight, i decided to quit handicapping myself, and shoot a rifle with a scope. The X7 had a 1X scope, and a carry strap for hunting, so it came with this morning. Warm weather has melted much of the snow, and made the trails icy. It was 36 degrees, and calm this morning When the target was shot. Went ahead, and used the strap as a 'hasty sling', because it was available.
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02-06-2017 | 01:06 PM
#79
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,695
Likes: 1
From: Illinois
I'll ask Pete's question. What was the order of the shots Ron? I know how that X7 of yours groups so I know it wasn't the rifle throwing a flier. If the one far right was your last shot, I'm thinking you need to work out some and build up some stamina and forearm/shoulder/lats strength. After one of my various shoulder surgeries I had a pretty bad issue with "pulling" after multiple shots. Once I hit the weights again and got my strength back, it solved that issue.