CVA Accura MR failed my hunting test.
 

I've been playing with this gun for awhile now. Probably one of the best feeling Break open Muzzleloader's I've ever shot. But at the end of the day I just don't trust it for hunting.

1- the main reason is the breech plug. Though I like the concept, it's very poorly designed and probably the worst breech plug I've ever used in today's modern muzzleloaders. It really reminds me of the older Knights. Very dirty, lots of blow back, and in my testing unreliable ignition. I should mention to, the plug has been modified with a 5/32 flame channel and a ventliner. I don't have a doubt with proper care and cleaning it would work reliably for anyone. That's just not how I treat them. When testing I shoot I think a lot, and I don't clean the plug. It's over kill for sure, but I like to be prepared for the worst.

The gun in my eyes is very accurate, good trigger, and handles very well. I would like to see a redesign in the plug using the same concept. And make the gun out of better materials and charge more for it. But right now I think the gun is over priced but I guess everything is now a days.

I would of liked to keep it, but when a tool doesn't do the job I get rid of it. But I think CVA has made really good progress, and they need to keep working on it some more.

LMAO

Dirty? my my, what ever did you do before lehigh made knights shoot cleaner? I guess sticking primers are easier to deal with.

Well Grouse I don't know how many shots you plan on taking while hunting. My Accura V2 has the CVA Blackhorn BP and I haven't had any issues with it. You may have read my latest thread on my hog/deer hunt. My rifle performed flawlessly taking 3 heads of game with 3 shots (one shot each).
Yeah there is some blowback from the primers but who gives a rat's butt? Ignition is reliable and the rifle is accurate. Who could ask for more?

What a crock! Sounds like the operator is inept to me.

Well, hopefully a buck and two doe in 2D. Probably 8 to 10 in 2B. Hopefully a buck in Ohio and maybe 1 Doe. If things go well probably 5 Coyotes between PA and Ohio. So i guess 15 to 20 shots plus in hunting in bad weather I'll shoot the gun off to.

Are you going to shoot all that game in one day? Clean the gun at the end of the day.

I've taken 50 shots with no swabbing and a fast twist of a drill in the flame channel every 10 shots. Which can be done without taking out the BP. It takes 15 seconds.

CVA will give you a free shim kit is you ask for one. That takes care of all the blowback.

Seriously Tom. The MR is a great hunting gun.

I personally explained very clearly if taken care of you would have no issues at all. I'm not posting this to make anyone happy, but I think I gave the gun a fair test and said plenty good things about it. What people do or don't do is not my problem at all. I use and shoot a variety of Muzzleloader's and enjoy it.

Ok.



...........

I think most of us on here do shoot a wide variety of MLs Grouse. But I don't know what kind of testing you do to get unreliable ignition. And a bit of blow back from a shot or two during a day of hunting is definitely no problem. At least for me and many other shooters. And I don't want to start an argument but the way you must do your testing has absolutely nothing at all to do with hunting with a ML because I don't think anyone shoots as many shots at all the game you stated in one, two or even a week without cleaning their rifle.
But out of curiosity, what do you find unacceptable with the breech plug in the CVAs?

Welcome back old boy. I haven't seen you here in a while. I hope your feeling a bit better.

Thanks. I'm ok. Back is kind of bent, but no big deal.

Bronko,
Not sure why you keep posting on this thread. If your happy that's all that matters. I've explained in other threads I've started on this gun and your welcome to go back and look. And buy the way, I won't clean my gun at all during hunting season. Here again, just cause most do I don't care. That's what I do and so far so good.

I post here because I'm trying to understand what you're saying about unreliable ignition and what you don't like about the CVA BP. But that's not what you have in your rifle. You have a modified one.
If you don't clean your rifle I really don't care either. If you would like to discuss this via PMs that would be fine. Like I said - I want to try and understand where you're coming from

I do have the factory CVA plug in my MR. I had Ron modify it cause I didn't want to buy the BH209 plug. But I think I did but not sure I ever used it.

Bronko,
A guy on another forum asked me what I would change. Here's what I wrote.

would shorten the plug, and make sure the barrel tolerances were tightened so the plug could be head spaced at the factory properly. I have heard rumours that the breech plug threads are weak as well, so I would make the breech plug out of 17/4 to make it more durable and safe at the same time. But I have had no problems with threads so far. But like I said, I don't clean it but I will today. This is a short version to answer your question about what I would change. Flame channel, primer pocket, and a couple other things would change as well while testing.

I see the shim kits are out of stock at CVA. After my hunt I took everything down and cleaned it. I noticed a section of the O-ring on the firing pin bushing is deformed. The shim kit would eliminate the need for the O-ring and likely help with the minor blow back I get.

I owned the Mountain Rifle a while back and had problems with the coating they had on it. that aside, the gun was a tack driver and I loved how it handled. I did have a problem with the BP while shooting BH209 and didn't have the chance to upgrade to the better BP for the BH209.

I now own the Apex after the CEO replaced my MR due to my problems with the MR. It is a great rifle and is also a tack driver!!! I do have the BH209 BP in the Apex and have gone 24 shots before running a patch down the barrel. I couldn't believe I didn't have to swab the barrel to keep shooting good shots.

Grouse, maybe you got a Monday morning production gun and is a lemon. Anything is possible my friend!!

Not at all, it seems to be a very good gun. It's just very dirty and that's why I had a couple delays. If it was clean that would of never happened. Maybe I'll shim it some day or just get rid of it???

I don't eliminate the o-ring. I put the shims under the o-ring.

Surprisingly the Wolf I have didn't need any shims and it's clean as a whistle.

Pretty much all break opens are are prone to this issue. Because of varying lengths of primers as well as the high cost of extreme tolerance cutting, it's just the nature of the beast. If the primer industry would actually break down and make a dang rule for primer lengths instead of 15000000000 different lengths it would be much better for the break open action MLers.

Muley do you remember what kind of primers you were using? I'm currently using Winchester 209s.

Yeah no problem with mine either it's like anything else if you don't take care of them they won't take care of you !

yep, getting a rifle ready for hunting season in my house is cleaning them, inspecting for loose bolts/screws and making sure fire channel is clean, including on my caplocks.

Yep I'm heading out on the 20th on a deer hunt with mine and totally confident with it !

I'm using Winchester T7 primers, because I use Schuetzen black powder. Very reliable ignition.

I'm not having any ignition problems with the standard Win 209 primers and either Pyrodex RS or Black MZ powders. But I may give the T7 primers a shot.
I'm not quite sure if its true or not but I read a couple years ago that standard 209 primers are too hot which causes the bullet to make a minor jump a little in the bore before the main charge ignites.
The primers for MLs aren't supposed to be as hot, eliminating this jump.

I believe that was more for pellets, but I could be wrong. I know the mild primers cut the crud ring down a bit when using T7 powder.

some fubar about the 209 causing the crud ring but i dont believe that its pushing the bullet off before the charge goes off. Why with #11 do we get a reverse crud ring at the MUZZLE rather than the breech? Let me guess, #11 cap isn't hot enough? lol. Who knows, just one of those deals where it has to be dealt with.

That's absolutely false. But when i shot 777 i preferred the 410 primers cause the crud ring wasn't as bad.

If that was the case you would see the winning shooters at Friendship's inline match using them all the time. The guys using real black powder in inline might be just because its more than enough to ignite real black powder.

Any other reason besides less crud ring with Triple7 is a simple marketing scam to get double the cost for a primer.

You need to talk to Mike. He uses #11 caps and says he gets no crud ring at all with T7.

Cecil Epps use to say this very thing a few years back maybe even now. I have never found it to be true unless the powder under the load is damp or fails to ignite right away... guess it goes back to the old thing keep yer powder dry!

I really agree with you on this one - I really prefer the Remington 209-4 primer - wish they still made them...


The odd thing!!! with a Lehigh plug they ignite BH just fine also... all depends on how well your breech plug breathes... or passes gas!


During the Idaho ML season I am required to use caps - I use a MAG #11 cap or a 1075+ German cap and do not need to run a damp or spit patch at all.... But, I do not have any petroleum oils in the barrel and no Teflon!

what ever happened to those things that shot pistol or rifle primers to rid the crud ring? Did those things ever work?

Yep they work real good . I have one for an Omega .

Looks like this post took a turn to another topic!! I was just curious about the primers. I use std Win 209s without any issues. I do get some blowback but that doesn't bother me. I always hunt on a clean barrel and never have any ignition issues.

I think I have a couple thousand of them. Remind me after I get back from Colorado I'll get them to you.

I got my Accura (goose neck) Nitride several months ago and found it to really be a joy to shoot and clean... the breach plug was one of the main reasons because it was so easy to take out and put back in.


I tried several different Power Belts with the same two pellet IMR White Hot load at 50, 100, and 200 yards... I shot 30 times or so that day and only cleaned the breach plug once,,, not because I had any ignition problems,,, but because I wanted to make sure the groups would be as accurate as possible.


Sure there was a little blow by, but not a lot considering the number of shots. All in all, and I have owned quite a few muzzleloaders over the years, I think the CVA Accura is one of the best I have ever shot. :happy0001:

Shim the FP housing and you won't have any blowback.