Your recommendation
 

I'm thinking about buying a new muzzleloader and was interested in input from any who haved used the models I am looking at. I own an Omega, but haven't had great success getting groups I am confident with (about 6-7" at 100 yards).

I am looking at the Knight Disc Extreme, TC Pro Hunter FX and possibly the Accura V2.

My hesitation with the Knight and Accura are primarily that I would have to change the breach plugs in order to shoot BH 209. I am hesitant with regards to the Encore because I wonder if it is worth the money to pay more for it and my experience with the Omega.

Anyway, I would be interested to hear some input if you have experience with these guns and what you like/dislike about them.

I have the v2 lr nitride haven't shot it too much yet but so far very accurate and I love the nitride finish. I was really po'd that the bh209 did not come with the gun but what can you do just have to shell out the money if you want it. Also I have the thumb hole stock which I also like.

neb, out of curiosity, what have you tried with the Omega? 6-7" tells me one of 3 things, bad scope, rings or base not tight, bad barrel (which TC would gladly fix), or simply bad shooter. And bad shooter doesn't necessarily mean poor performance at the bench but possibly bad loading habits. As in, not seating the bullet with equal pressure, wrong end on the rod if you are using tipped bullets and using a rod end that doesn't have the opening for them then you are flattening that tip and that will make for very inaccurate shots. Inconsistent powder charge or a bad batch of powder. It actually could be a number of things not related to the quality of the rifle at all!

I've been working with it for nearly 5 years now. While I don't claim to be the best shot in the world, I know I'm better than the performance I have gotten out of this gun.

I have tried Triple 7, Pyrodex and BH209 in charges ranging from 80 up to 120. I have shot Deep Curls, Shockwaves, Partitions, Barnes, Expanders and Spitfire TEZ's and Hornady XTP's all with various sabots. I swabbed between shots and left it dirty. I have shot it with standard sights and a peep.

Finally I threw scope on it last year in hopes that I was the problem. Still no luck...2" at 50 yards. That was when I decided maybe it was time to try something different.

Sounds like a bad barrel then. Rare but not unheard of. Have you tried contacting TC?

If it's a quick load-QLA design-I wonder if the muzzle end of the barrel is off centerline.
Secondly, some of those Thompson stocks don't provide rigid support which allow barrel flex and poor groups upon firing. I've got one such gun I'm waiting to see if the stock causes the poor groups I suspect it might.

If your only complaint about buying the CVA V2 is the breech plug. Buy it from Ed's Gun Shop. Carlos will modify the stock BP to use BH 209. For free. He'll also setup the headspace so you get no blowback. On top of that, he'll give you the best price over any other place you can buy it. It will also be as accurate if not more accurate as any of the guns you're considering and will shoot conicals and sabots. Something that can't be said for all TC guns.

Make sure to ask for Carlos when you call. He doesn't work on Wed.

Ed's Gun Shop
5560 US 1 HWY
Vass, NC 28394
(910) 692-7936
(910) 692-4867 fax
[email protected] or [email protected]

Hours:
M - F - 9am - 6pm
Sat - 9am - 5pm
Sun - Closed

You got that at about the time they had a problem with the QLA alignment. If you are decent with tools cut the barrel off square with the bore and button it; if not having a gunsmith do it is much less cost than a new rifle. If you search it out there is a good description in detail of how to cut off the QLA and button in the archives.

He's shooting sabots. The QLA won't cause those to be un-accurate.

I am wondering why you think you have to change the breech plug in a new Knight to shoot BH.


The Knight/Lehigh NFPJ (bare primer) breech plug shoots BH just fine even using a mild Winchester W209 primer.

Yeah it can Pete. If it's really bad out of alignment it will cause serious gas deflection which can "tilt" the bullet/sabot. Plus, if it's out of wack, the whole purpose of the QLA (easier loading bullet/sabot straight) is thrown out the window. Sabot gets loaded at an angle, even a slight one, will throw accuracy to the dogs.

Never heard of one that far off. Just how bad is TC at making barrels?

I'd go with the Accura V2, blackhorn209 breech plug and then its all easy rolling from there.

What state are you hunting?

Before S&W took them over they had some of the best barrels made. Then after the takeover they were like Marlin during the "Remlin" period for about 5 years. You had around a 60% chance of a good barrel. I think they are coming out of that but that QLA is just an unnecessary gimmic in my opinion. I miced her Impact barrel and the recess SEEMS to be on center. I may throw some connies down range to see if it will shoot them. If not then I may cut that QLA crap off and put a 11* crown on it.

well I will add this, my TC encore shot like crap, tried so many combo's of bullets and powders it was insane, sent it back to TC> they too said BAD barrel, and gave me a new one, sent it back to me with a 2 inch group at 50 yards and said this is way better!
I ended up at a show and ran into Greg Ritz, and told him about my gun, he had me send it back again, and got it back with another 2 inch group test target??
which IMO SUCKS
I had 5 different scopes on this gun, a ray of mounts and bases by the end I had 5 different factory barrels on it, gun was shot by me and many other PRO class shooter( a few that build custom rifles for a living)
I without lying had about a 800+ rounds thru the above and could never get gun to shoot well consistently, was like a ?? , no one could figure out
TC eventually GAVE me a new gun
and that one shot SO so, in my opinion, and I ended up selling the gun to someone that wanted the receiver !!
I;m NOT saying this is the norm for TC guns,as I have seen many shot awesome

but MY experience with mine and the help I got from TC< was far from good.

the above took about 3 yrs in all before they replaced it with a different gun, and I spend hundreds of $$$ out of my pocket TRYING to get it to perform as it should have!

so, my vote wouldn't be for a TC gun here LOL

and again I am NOT bashing them, I am just saying what issue's I had, and seen many other brands shoot as well or better for less $$$

They should guarantee 1 & 1/2" groups at 100 yards with sabots. Or at least they used to. If it really is that bad, send it back to the factory and if it is off, they should replace the barrel.

TC was having quality control problems with the Encore long before they were acquired by Smith and Wesson. i lucked out with the muzzleloder barrel but i've seen several bad ones. Bellms specializes in fixing Encores.

Of the five centerfire barrels i bought, three were trash.

The hammer spring was too weak. The ramrod thimbles were loose because the screws were bottomed out. There was side play in the barrel and action. That was fixed when a machinist in the shop my son supervised welded up the action and machined it to fit the barrels.

http://bellmtcs.com/store/

Yeah I guess you're right Falcon, after the fire they had some quality control issues. And the hammer springs for every TC I have owned has always been on the weak side. But I never had a single problem with ANY of my barrels from them. I currently have 6 barrels for my PH frame and a Hawken. Every one of them, including the .50cal barrel for the PH and the Hawken barrel, are tack drivers. But I did use Mike's accuracy system but that's the nature of the beast when it comes to interchangeable cartridge platforms. It would be physically impossible to perfectly mate every single barrel to every single frame without some wiggle room. They were all "accurate enough" before I did the mods but now all of them will group well within an inch at 100 yards.

While I appreciate the speculation and feedback on my Omega, I am less interested in continuing to try and diagnose the issue with it. I haven't yet decided if I will keep it and try to fix and have two or just get rid of it.

I'm from Utah and our regs are wide open now. It wouldn't be a bad thing to have a rifle I could use in Colorado if I chose to hunt there with my muzzleloader.

I apologize...I miss spoke here. I haven't been able to find a Knight with the bare primer ignition system in it and not sure how hard it would be to either convert the disc system over or find one already installed. I have also read regarding some the headspace issues and I'm really not looking for a project so much as something that shoots out of the box and meets my desire for BH209. I also wonder how difficult it is to get the primer on and off.

I have also read that the Pro Hunter can be a bear to clean with a scope on it as it makes it difficult to access the trigger area as the bp doesn't seal off blowback.

I know CVA has made improvements over the years, but I'll admit it is hard to get past some of their former issues and past quality concerns.

Again, if you have experience with these guns or even one I haven't listed. I am interested in hearing why. I am currently leaning more towards the Knight, but am not firm in that direction.

I've seen the disc extreme in a .52 as well and wonder if there would be any reason to go with it over a .50.

Modern CVA's have no problems. I've owned every model with no problems and were very accurate.

Good luck with Knights customer service.

Muley, that is not correct. One of our club members had one that would not shot anything with less than an 8 inch group including sabot loads and we tried every everything we could get our hands on; I cut the QLA off and gave it the same button I use on PRB guns and it shot a decent group with most loads.

Can't tell if you're talking about my post on the TC, or CVA?

The Accura V2 is certainly capable of being very accurate with the right load. Mine will shoot 1 jagged hole groups at 100 yds, if I do my part.

Pete, I was talking about TC. When the QLA is off 3/32 like his was they do not shoot sabots well either .

Have you considered a new Cooper? Yes it'll be more expensive but, how many times do you want to do it over? Bolt action 209 ignition and BH capable.

Sorry to hear about your issues. Most Omega's seem to shoot really well. Hard to say for sure what the issue is, but something isn't right. I know mine would shoot MOA all day long with several different loads if I did my part.

I have some unexpected expenses come up and may be selling a few of my Knights if you are interested. One is a new old stock Disc Elite .50 , the other is a used/like new Disc Extreme .45. Both are stainless/black. All the Knights I have drive tacks and you can use whatever powder you like.

Thanks for the input. I'm looking for a disc extreme .50 from the last year or 2.