Federal Copper Bullet and Five Jugs
 

This afternoon, the same powder charge, range, etc. The bullet penetrated every jug, and settled to the bottom of the last one. The skirt stopped in the fourth jug. They can be seen in the jugs rearranged by the shooter.

It didn't open at all???? Which is probably why it got to the 5th jug - nothing to really slow it down.

My thoughts exactly , you could almost shoot it again

Ron, I see your testing came up the same again of them not opening up as when you did the 200 yard test.
When I tried them again at 200 yards with 120 gr of BH 209, all they did was go thru 6 water jugs and into a 6 x 6 that I was using as a back stop about 1.5 inches into it.
FAILED again, other than being very accurate and a 1/2" slug going into the right area. I would keep them at 150 yards or less.

Dave

Looks like a bullet I will never buy. Well, I wouldn't likely have bought them anyway.

:( I got 5 1/2 packs left :(

The solution is simple (trivial), just burn 130g powder, and shoot no further than about 225 yard.

The photo shows one that impacted at 205 yard, and was pushed by 130g Blackhorn.

Now i feel better

Well there ya` go. Dis heah ol boy ain't ever gonna be a`shooting 130 grains of Blackhorn unda ennyting.

Way more powder than the average hunter would use to make it work.
Dave

You start shooting 300 yards at a speed goat and you might ;)

If I ever got the chance to shoot those critters at that kind of range I'd probably be lobbing Ed Mehlig's 465 grain conicals at them, pushed by 85 grains GOEX. :s2:

While the low velocity test is impressive in penetration, the actual expansion is a real disappointment. Yet when push HARD (much harder then I care to shoot) it behaved real well. Exceptional actually. It would be interesting to see what that would have done with say ... 90 grains of BH209. Something average shooters might use.

Nice looking bullet though. That sabot went into four jugs. That surprised me. Do they normally hold on to that sabot part that hard?

If one used 90g of Blackhorn, the bullet would look something like the following, if it hit the jugs at about 140 yard or so.













The plastic thingy is not a sabot, it is fastened to the bullet quite securely. Note, it is shoved tighter onto the bullet, by the burning of the powder, and makes the seal/fit into the rifling.

There is a write up of this projectile in the current NRA publication of American Hunter, no mention of penetration or expansion, only group size and fps. The majority of my shots on whitetail deer are 60 yrds or less. Think I'll stick with the Gold Dots as I shoot 90 gr. of BH209.

I like a bit more myself for hunting.

I decided to cross post this in case it's missed in the other thread.



Why wouldn't I use it on elk? It's reviews like this one that make me feel that way.



"They do load easy and shoot straight, but you can't kill anything with them. Shot moose in shoulder, missing the bone...bullet only went in a couple inches came apart and stopped. That's with three 50 grain triple pellets @ 100 yards. It never made it to the engine room. Similar shot with a Barnes bullet, blow up main shoulder bone, two ribs on each side and stopped in the skin after passing through other shoulder. HUGE difference. Too bad, I had high hopes."

Your description of these two bullets is inconsistent to what i have observed. The Barnes has always seemed softer than the Federal every time i shoot them. The problem with both bullets is about the same i.e. they seem to plug up when traveling at slow speeds, and don't expand. At high speeds they both work wonderfully.

It would greatly surprise me that the Federal would 'blow up' on a bone, but the Barnes would not, if they both encountered the exact same condition. Well, i guess i need more convincing, but right this moment, i am dubious.

Me, i still consider them both good bullets. Perhaps further reports will sway my opinion, but it still seems the Federal is a tad stouter than the Barnes, from what i have seen. Not saying the difference is significant.













That bullet was found in frozen ground behind the paper. It certainly didn't fail.

Me, i have no dog in this discussion, but remain believing these are both good bullets, and still believe they would perform similarly in similar conditions. They both would do just about the same thing in the same conditions, according to what i have seen with my own eyes.

Keep the data coming.... the more information the better.

They plug up on carpet. I don't hunt for carpet. I want to see how it does on game. The above example shows that.

It didn't hit bone. It hit meat, and blew up with no penetration.

It was pushed fast. It over expanded, and didn't penetrate. Hit the game with not enough fps, and it doesn't expand. Sound familiar? It's how we describe a Powerbelt.

Go ahead and use it. I'll use a more proven bullet.

To me it is unusual that a monolithic bullet would completly blow up, and not penetrate. The base of the bullets is solid.

Yes, i remain dubious.

Too brittle maybe? Could be why it doesn't expand at low fps too.

Several of the bullets did not expand at low speeds. The bullets that failed low speed expansion included the Barnes, the XTP, the Deep Curl, the Partition, and the Federal. The only bullet that did what it was designed to do, when the speed was low, is the Lehigh Controlled Fracturing Bullet.


Now on to the higher speed test.














The two on the right penetrated deep. The two on the left, not so deeply...

That Federal sure has a short solid base. Perhaps it is too short? Is it the shortness of the Federal base that makes it fail to penetrate deep on Mooses?

Barnes claims their bullet will expand down to 1200fps.

Were you below that?

Yes, i was a way below that; was sitting still, until i got up and went to look for the bullet, and stop the camera.

You were simulating a 200yd shot. Maybe long range hunters shouldn't set max range to their accuracy, but how far will the bullet still work.

If memory serves, the speed of the 270g Federal at the jugs was clocked at about 1205 fps. This would lead one to believe the speed of the 250g Barnes would be a bit faster than 1200 fps, but not much.

A reason the Barnes didn't expand is because the tip was shoved back, and the hollow was plugged with carpet, carpet backing, fabric, and plywood. The same thing happened to both tipped bullets. The hollow point bullets, except for the Lehigh had the end plugged much the same way.

The controlled fracturing Lehigh, just worked as designed.

The bullets without tips or hollow points just failed to expand, because they were going too slow, i guess.

:lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove: Me tinks dat one blew by old Pete!

I'm thinking this. I like 2 holes in an animal. Plain and simple. That way if it doesn't drop right there, it's not going far for one, and it will leave a better trail for 2. Now, here's what I'm thinking, why not have the best of both worlds??!! A bullet that will dump a ton of energy INSIDE and create a massive wound channel and STILL penetrate well enough to pass through! Wait a minute, that already exists now doesn't it? The Lehigh CF! The improved Bloodline for today from what I have been gathering! Make check payable to _______________ for this advertisement please :)

300g Nosler Partition
 

That BULLET you described has existed since back in the nineteen hundreds.

It certainly did - but it really doesn't work the way that the bloodlines does! The Bloodline and the newer CF's have a higher Terminal Ballistics and have no lead.

Well, i would like to see the spec sheet on Lehigh's UNC3600 brass. It commonly has more lead than would be allowed in states like California. Its only a few percent but its enough to make it a no no in CommieFornia.

California can kiss my big old hairy butt! I swear I am getting sick and tired of those hippies having their noses in EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE! I'm serious here, why in the hell is the WHOLE DAMN USA bending to that silly fairy state? It's one state in this country I have never hunted in nor will I ever. Hell I only visit it when I HAVE to for my business. Other than that I stay as far away from that crap hole as I can. You don't want something in California, that's fine a Jim Friggin Dandy!! Just don't be pushing your stupidity onto MY damn hunting grounds!

Okay, rants over, grumble grumble, damn bunch of limp wristed hippies trying to tell ME what to do, grumble grumble

I think that was or is taken care of in the new CF bullets - The Lehigh originals and Bloodlines had slightly more than CA allowed (3%) but I am thinking Lehigh now with the current bullet meets or exceeds the CA. standard - BUT I DO NOT KNOW THAT FOR A FACT. One thing that leads me to that belief. Lehigh did not ever say their bullet was lead free until the current new bullets which are advertised as "Lead Free"

Looks like Federal is now offering a big boy 350gr
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/353...ProductFinding

That's worth a look. I wondered if they were coming out with a heavier version.

They do sound interesting.

Midway seems to be the only place that has them. I can't even find info about them on the Fed site.

Pete

I know of no one using the Harvester Saber Tooths. Have you tried them?

The Federals always seem to have distribution issues, despite being very expensive. Cabelas wants $25 for 15 bullets. That's crazy. If the ML bullet is more than 75 cents, I decline. I only hunt deer and yotes with my MLs. They don't require much money per shot.

I wonder if Carlos has any updated info from Federal? Even Wakeman's website has no mention of the 350gr.

Saber has a really bad BC. They lose energy too fast.