Choose the most common issue creating ignition problems when first using BH 209?
 

Blackhorn powder is unreliable
Bullet too loose
Primer choice
Incompatible breech plug design
Blackhorn powder is mysterious
Too little powder
Cold temperature
Dirty barrel
Blackhorn powder is inconsistent
Too much powder

Choices, 2,3 and 4. Eliminate those and you will love it!

I agree on #2,3 and 4 but I think you need to add dirty breech plug to your list as a culprit.:)

I just voted, the first vote it appears. Unfortunately there are a number of things that can cause poor and/or unreliable ignition IMO.:)

Ignorance , thats what i think is the primary reason . But i didnt see that listed in the poll so i didnt vote:)

Think I would really need to agree with you... There is a learning curve when moving from BP & BP subs. Since BH is really a nitro smokeless/progressive burning powder you have to apply a different thought process to shooting it reliably every time. Once the curve is mastered most of your BH issues will be solved.

Blackhorn is very sensitive, and has feelings. If you don't love it, it won't work for you.

I was looking for "What ignition issues? "

My only FTF was using T7 primers which were weakend in an attempt to avoid the Crud Ring. All other priners have never failed.

I have no Blackhorn ignition issues. Maybe that's because I pretty much only use GOEX. :s2:

Nobody likes a wise guy!

I have to agree. I've sent between 6,000 and 7,000 rounds of BH and never had an ignition problem.

Yep, there are certainly multiple reasons for failures with BH. Whichever one you don't know/do is the primary one for your failure.

One of them saved my bacon once: BHs need for some compression/semi-snug bullet. The ONLY time I have ever short-started a bullet was with BH 209. The primer went pop and the bullet went about 10 ft out of the barrel without any ignition of the powder. I shudder to think if I had done this with another powder. So, sometimes a failure can be a blessing!

So, I did not vote either because there are multiple reasons and all of them stem from lacking knowledge. In my experience, wrong primers and wrong breechplugs would account for 95% of the ignition issues. From what I have seen of these two, they are about 50/50 as to which has caused a person to have issues. I can't vote for one over the other as "primary".

I believe that a lot of design engineers learned a lot about breach plug design from BH.
I also believe that crud- ring was responsible for the design of Blackhorn so some thing good came from 777 after all.

I agree Lemoyne, but the use of 777 and the crud ring it produced was the reason so many people redesigned their breechplugs to transfer less fire and manufactured reduced strength 209 primers. That in turn produced the issues with BH 209 when it came out. Those changes were exactly the opposite of what was needed for BH to ignite.

Yep, primarily any combo of 2-3-4

Mysterious?.... never, unless one qualifies as a first time user, with no backround on what makes Blackhorn tick. Learning the powder's couple quirks that separates it from real black and most-all other substitutes, removes the mystery pretty quickly.

Chet, i must respectively disagree.

Citing my own experiences as an example, when i first started using Blackhorn, we were all about as ignorant as ignorant can be. Never once did i ever experience a misfire, or a delay in hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds of shots.

Why?

After shooting all these hundreds of shots, i started experiencing a delay every now and again--then a dreaded misfire on a perfectly located doe, that i could have driven to within a couple hundred feet.

Why? Surely i was more knowledgeable then, than i was when i first started using Blackhorn.

For what this powder costs, and the need for a special breach plug, and the fact that you have to ream the flash hole of the breach plug, it is'nt worth a **** !

I do not use an aftermarket breechplug for Blackhorn in either my Knight or T/C.

Also, I wold rather ream the breechplug channel every 5-6 shots, versus use an extra 10 patches for cleaning the ML using blackpowder versus Blachorn, which usually gets my bore clean in four patches, versus 14 with real blackpowder or Pyrodex.

I no longer use 777. Too many crud rings and froze-up breechplugs halted my use of 777.

Did I mention how little corrosion Blachorn displays? Did I mention how it's hygroscopic properties outshine the others?

I am not 100% sold-yet on a steady diet of Blackhorn. But I'm closing-in on the finish line and Blackhorn is several lengths ahead of the others.

Im used to people disagreeing with me . But i still say thats the problem . For example just because you knew more after shooting it a while and then had ignition problems doesnt mean it isnt caused by ignorance . For example i might shoot it a couple months . Know nothing and never have a misfire . Then all of a sudden a couple hang fires . Turns out its carbon build up . I get a drill and drill it out . ( once i find out the reason)Problem solved but it was caused by ignorance because i didnt know about the carbon problem in the flame channel
Thats just one of example .so i respectfully disagree with your disagreeing :D

But Chet, my hang fire, and misfire, weren't caused by problems in my rifle; the hang fires, and misfire occurred in my new rifle; a better gun, you should know what i mean.

So... please allow me to beat you to it, and say for you, the reason i ended up with a better gun, is out of ignorance.



However, that isn't a choice in the poll. When you go to vote in an election, you never get to vote perfect choices do you? You just vote for the best choice available. When you go to the polling place, if you don't necessarily like the choices, you don't submit a paragraph, you just vote, or don't.



My first days using Blackhorn saw me as very ignorant. My first days had no ignition issues. Even though i didn't realize the flame channel was supposed to be 1/8", and not 3/32", there were never any delays, or misfires. The primers i used, were what i could find at the store, nothing special. Still no delay, or misfire. None of the mistakes made out of ignorance caused a delay, or a misfire.

The ignition issues began when the 'better gun' came to my house.





We received 3" of rain since about 2 am this morning. The radar seemed to show some red down your way; hope it wasn't/isn't too bad.

Today was pretty bad Lots of flooding .

I am a firm believer in "write in candidates":s1:

Then we are kind of like the blind men each feeling a different part of the elephant and then voting on what an elephant is like. We each describe a different "primary" problem due to our own point of view. Luckily, I started using BH with my Omega using standard 209 primers. The primary problem for me was the carbon buildup with that first encounter.

Then I started using my Knight LRH and experienced hangfires, misfires. I then realized that the breechplug was a problem and replaced the breechplug with a Lehigh one.

I did experience some issues with a loose fitting bullet, so that can happen too.

Never had a problem with primers. Since I use to use 777, if I had been using 777 primers when I switched, that would have been the "primary" problem.

When you post a poll on the internet, do you expect people just to vote and not write anything, not even why they voted as they did? Well, you have to take the good with the bad on the internet. So as written I still can not vote in the poll because as written, the is not one clear "answer" to vote on. And yes, on the internet, I am going to write a paragraph on why not.

Give me a different question, even if the answers are the same, and I might even vote!

Kids came back from checking the flooding in the pasture. The rain brought a free meal, so I guess it ain't all bad :D

Sweet.....

Oh YEAH!

Today of all days one should feel free to write a paragraph, as we give thanks, and honor, to those who sacrificed everything, so we could.

Yes, i can understand your discomfort with the choices.

My first try using Blackhorn was also in an Omega, and the primer used was what was for sale at the local store. Like you i was lucky and everything worked like a charm. However, never did i experience a delay, or a misfire in that rifle. Luckily, i guess, i noticed the flame channel growing smaller, and smaller. Even when it was so small only a 1/16" drill would cut the carbon, never was there a ignition issue. After shooting Blackhorn a few times through the rifle/breech plug, i was 'sure', the flame channel was 7/64". It was with disbelief when i learned the flame channel was actually 1/8".

Now, these years later, both of us have tried Blackhorn in different rifles. Both of us have read this forum, and others. We have both similar, and varying experiences. We both have read of problems and solutions to those problems. We no longer know just one part of the elephant.

Now... gathering together all your knowledge, and kinda meditating over the issues you know can exist, are you able to answer the poll question by choosing one of those choices as the primary over all issue?

Yes.... No...then...What question could you answer?

"What do you think has been the most common issue creating ignition problems when people first start using BH 209?"

If that were the question, I would answer Breechplug but that would just be a guess from the past posts I have seen on the internet. But at least I would vote!

I suspect that is what you are trying to get to, but as stated, the question doesn't mean that to me

Currently all but one of my friends who shoot use sidelocks and the one who uses BH learned from me after I got it figured out, so the internet (always a poor scientific sampling) is my only source of info.

I think you nailed it txhunter.

Tried using your question as the title; it is too long. Don't know what to change to make it fit. Suggestions?

#1 ignition problem for new Blackhorn users

The reason it has issues is, it's not a BP substitute.

It's a smokeless substitute in disguise.

"Most common issue creating ignition problems when first using BH 209?"

And you could edit first post to clarify. Since that is what you are trying to ask, I voted!

Well, luckily I had you guys to tell me the one problem that WOULD have raised it's ugly head had I not been offhandidly warned. Carbon buildup. But I had my properly sized, handy dandy, do it yourself drill bit at the ready to remove that ugly mess after 10 or so shots. Other than that, my TC .50 cal barrel loves the stuff. I got increased velocity, hell of a lot easier cleanup, and much easier reloading. Not to mention it's a LOT easier to see through the "smoke cloud". Like Pete said, it's vaguely disguised smokeless powder.

Agree!
I have 1-1/2 lbs of real black in my gun safe and it's going to be many years before I use it up. I hardly ever shoot my last remaining sidelock anymore.

Thanks Semi for the reply. Good to know pass-thrus are a-happening with the 300 non-Mags.

I just have to disagree with the prime choice being a problem for those who read what not to use. I have and have used a wide variety of standard primers and the only differences I have noted is some have a little blow back and some carbon up the flame channel a little more than others. I end up using win 209 because they eliminate the blow back with out any shimming.
Using the hottest primers like CCI Mag is not a very good substitute for decent breach plug design, especially since all it takes to modify them is a tiny bit of smarts and a drill and a tap.

I am a complete rookie when it comes to BH209. Shot it for the first time this past weekend. Based on what I've learned from here and MM, I would say that improper bp design and/or a restricted flame channel would cause the most problems.

I do know that I had a flawless maiden voyage (albeit only 12 shots), so I am happy. Still have alot to learn with it but it shot good and was nice to not have to swab between shots. :)

:biggrin:I figure since the crawfish already were inserted in this thread , one more post wouldnt hurt. After all we are all used to threads getting hijacked , right?:biggrin:

here's what happened to the critters the kids found




why , shucks, they didn't even waste the shells. they found a use for them also.





and they are available with or without pinchers




You got to love kids.

That's hilarious. And what a beautiful little lady. You're a lucky guy Sharpsshooter.

Today, i can still recall struggling to tie my shoes for the first time. Seems i was ignorant. When i struggled to read, it was because i was ignorant. Then there was the struggles i went through trying to write, trying to do arithmetic, trying to change a tire. The crud ring that i encountered when i first shot 777 sure made me struggle. Ignorance applies to everything we begin, not just Blackhorn, which is why it isn't necessary, to list it in the poll. Go ahead and vote.