barnes original and sabots
 

any one have any experience with barnes 45/70 .458 originals in a orange mmp sabot in a white.504 cal muzzleloader i just ordered some in 300 gr and 400 gr to see what they can do. sometime firing a squib load is not always an option so would like to have a sabot combo to go to in those circumstances.i do have some of the original white super star sabots but want a better bullet and who knows how long we can still get them. thanks for the info!!

There is a possibility that those bullet/sabot combination might be to loose in a White .504. If that is the case then you could switch the sabots out to a MMP HPH-24.

yeah i will have to wait to see have you ever tried them ?

Harvester Black Crushribs and a .458 are quite popular in over sized bores. Loaded OD is around .509 IIRC.

A word of caution though, that Barnes O is a tough bullet. The jacket is very thick and it likes speed for reliable expansion. IMO you would be better off with a Speer or Hornady 300gr .458 HP.

ok thanks i will let you know when i get them.

The Barnes MZ Expander is a much better all around bullets then the original. Specialy out of a muzzleloader.

yes i have shot them with a lot of success i'm just doing this to change it up a little just like to see what other bullet combos will do.especially nowadays with getting our shooting supplies it's just another option to fall back on. i am really curious about the 400 gr originals and how they group since the white shoot the heavier bullets so well. i'm not to worried about expansion as gm-54 eluded to i think if you put it where it belongs it will do it's job.

.032 jacket
1600-1900fps minimum fps at impact for expansion

http://www.barnesbullets.com/informa...#faq_originals

Kinda doubt you will get there in a White if you choose the Spire Points. Its Kind of a waste to use a high BC bullet that isnt going to help you at longer ranges because the FPS has fallen too low. Seems silly to use a $1+ bullet that wont perform better than a 50cent bullet at that speed. If you had a Savage with 2300fps capability, they would be a great choice.

Good Luck

In real world hunting situations that doesn't always happen. That's why I use a premium bullet in case I don't do exactly what I should.

Grouse

Some shooters just desire to shoot sabots over conicals, even if their ML is mismatched for that purpose. Name 2-3 sabot/bullets you wold recommend to the thread-starter here.

1-Blooodlines by Lehigh Defense are by far the best sabot bullet I've ever used.
2- 275Grn Parker Ballistic Extremes.
3- The 260grn DeadCenter is a fantastic lead bullet.
4- If your stuck on Barnes the 250grn MZ Expander is the best Barnes for an inline Muzzleloader.
5- I don't have any advice for a good conical bullet.

The Parker BE would be a great choice considering they expand easily and fly well. I would choose the 300gr but only because of the faster twist. I shoot the 275gr in my NULA just because they are so darn accurate and i usually stick to text book broadside shots.

The larger Precision Rifle bullets would also likely preform well at White speeds. IIRC they offer a fairly heavy 44cal that was originally intended for the Savage.

Barnes Expanders are by far my favorites in the Barnes lineup. The even have them in the XPB lineup. Nearly identical bullet, different name.

All of these have a similar price point as the BO but will perform better at lower MV and impact speeds.

Grouse
Have you tried the 250gr Bloodline in you NULA? Im tinkering with the idea of trying them next year. Ive got a box i haven't tried yet.

no worries guy's i'm still going to try to get them to fly i'll let you know what i find out. thanks!

When I was pushing Knight to make an Ultralite I sent them my NULA. They shot a lot of bloodlines with it. I don't ever remember doing it but yes they work great. I personally used the 275grn ballistic Extreme with that gun last time I use it. That was before I met Dave at Lehigh. I'm going to shoot that gun after hunting season for sure.

i presume you are talking to me? no i haven't tried them. i really like heavy bullets that's why i'm so interested in the 300-400 gr originals or even something heavier. i see a lot of guy's talking about long shots and so on but most of the deer i shoot are very close within 50 yards i like getting close maybe it's the bow hunter in me? the deer i just shot on my hunt in december was a whopping 12 yards away shot her with a .504/465 gr no excuses bullet the blood trail looked like there was a massacre with no meat loss at all ! she did manage to get across the field to the tree line they always seem to do that !!

Actually i was asking Grouse since i know he owns a NULA. ;)

actually i don't prefer to shoot sabots it's just at times it hard to do the squib load deal with my white rifles so would like a sabot and clean barrel option to fall back on. i actually shoot the power stars pretty well out of my white .504 but would prefer a copper solid or a better bullet option. thanks !!

I have one white that seems to have a bigger diameter barrel than the others,I use harvester red crushed ribbed sabot in it.It really tighten up my groups.If you happen to have a 54.I would try mmp purple sabot and a 50 cal bullet,one that's shoots fine for me is speer 50 cal,325 grain hollowpoint.I have never recovered one,so I cant say about the expansion,but I have taken several deer with this bullet and its deadly.

sorry been out of the loop for a while didn't notice your reply but i actually am in the process of converting my super 91 .504 to a super safari i fitted and glass bed the stock had to fit the sling swivel and had to buy a nose cap off doc and i sent the stock to be dipped in mossy oak bottom land and i had all the s.s. metal parts black iced i should have it back together this week so i can get back to testing the sabots. thanks for the tip !