lost a deer. what do you think?
 

I shot a doe yesterday at about 50 yards. slightly quarrying away. I believe I hit shoulder blade but the reaction of the deer was impossible to see because of the smoke from the shot.

After the shot she went about 30 yards and stopped. She was partially blocked by a tree but it looked like she squatted a bit and I thought she was going down. One off the other 5 deer that was with her was standing there looking back at her. Then then just kind of went on their way. Not running and not walking. All the deer after the shot seemed confused as to where to go. They didn't take off the just scattered a little and then looked around like what was that?

I was shooting my .54 Renegade with 90 grains behind a patched round ball. I recovered the ball at the sight where I hit her along with some bone fragments. The larger piece of bone has a little lead imbedded on the back of it which tells me this is bone from the opposite side of the deer where the shot was taken.

I found blood splatter at the hit sight and followed fairly light blood drops for about 30 yards to where it looked like she squatted. At that point I found a large amount of blood. Then after that I could only find another speck or two of blood and that was it. It's like she disappeared.

The large spot of blood where she squatted came from standing there for not more that 15 seconds.

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No appearent bubbles in the blood.

Stayed int he stand for 25 minutes after the shoot. Searched the area for 3 hours after with negative results.

Do you think she's dead?

Also found hair at the shot sight. Seemed more white/light brown than anything. about 1.5 inches long.

That bone fragment reminds me of that knob at their "elbow".

While this has happened to some of us*, it is disconcerting; I shot a doe with my .54 Renegade using the same load one time with similar results-shoulder hit, lotta blood, never went down.

After waiting 10 min since I was so sure of the shot, I began tracking only to watch the other does in her group nudge her on whenever she stopped...they eventually crossed property lines and went into a very large, very dense swamp. I tracked until totally losing the trail, maybe 3/4 mile or so total.

Game animals can take a hit.

*edited to reflect that some, not all ( & especially not muley), hunters have lost a deer.

Yep, dead deer out there today, likely due to blood loss.

Not only do I think she's dead but not too far away. That bone could be rib bone also. Deer are amazing creatures. Even mortally wounded I have seem them do some incredible distances before expiring. But I would start walking large circles out there if you find no fresh track.

i agree with cayugad. Start walking in ever increasing circles until the deer is found.

A bold statement that has always rubbed me the wrong way. Take a poll, and if everybody is honest, you'll see how many hunters have never lost an animal.

"rubbed you the wrong way"

I don't understand.

I am saying anyone who hunts has lost an animal and describing my similar such loss;though (hopefully) not a regular occurrence, it is still a disconcerting one, at least it is for me.

What, exactly, are you saying?

Given that you didn't knock her down, and she didn't tear out of there hobbled up... my guess is brisket. If it hit the elbow, I think it would have penetrated the chest. Possibly your shot was farther forward than you hoped. A brisket shot will bleed initially decent, then peter out. Typically they won't die from a brisket shot unless infection sets in... because no vitals are hit.

I'm quite surprised you found the ball... that's gotta be some long odds to find it at the point of impact. Strange.

Edit:
I just re-read your post....the only other thing I can think.... possibly you hit her far back and hit the last rib on the way out. ? That would explain the hunching/squatting. The only time I've seen a deer do that is when they are gut shot... they typically don't go far initially and hunch up. Then the intestines plug the holes, and blood is almost non existent as it pools up inside. They usually don't go far though and lay down. Since you didn't notice that you jumped her when you started looking, who knows for sure.

One of those two is my guess.

I'm saying not all hunters have lost animals. You're making an assumption that because you've lost an animal that everybody must have.

I've lost several over my hunting career... not proud of it, but certainly not ashamed. I've also killed a ton, so the % is low on losses.

Do you have access to a deer tracking dog? If they are legal where you are, you could certainly go back out today... I'm sure its been cold enough. Them dogs are amazing. If they are legal in your state and someone is relatively close to you, most of these guys live to have their dogs find deer for folks. Just a thought.

tracking dogs




.

I think you are simply vituperative.

Frankly, almost every one I know across the age range who hunts has, at one time or another and for various reasons, lost an animal.

If you, yourself, have not and, further, do not know of anyone who has, I would say that is truly amazing.:hail:

I thought the same-needle/haystack.

OP-make a necklace!

Take a poll, and you'll be amazed even more.

I never said you should be ashamed. Sometime it happens. I'm just saying it hasn't happen to everybody. Call it luck if you want.

Sometimes you can be lucky by putting all the odds in your favor. Some hunters take risky shots. Some don't. Of course long shots are always a bit risky for those who aren't skillful enough to make them. Others try risky shots like head shots. It can go on and on about what's risky, and what's not.

I think if someone take fairly close shots, and always takes nothing but double lung shots with good ammo that will give a pass through. The odds are in his favor to not lose an animal.

PERFECT ANSWER!!! They allow tracking dogs in my state and I can assure you, those dogs are outstanding! Its an exceptional rarity that an animal isn't found. I heard of one Dachshund that trailed an animal over 2 miles, crossed a river twice and still found the deer.

If they don't allow tracking dogs in anyone's state, hunters there should be lobbying to get that allowed.

Thanks guys.

Let's not get to hung up on if everyone has lost a deer or not. It really does not help the situation. It only turns the thread into a different argument.

I am leaving now with my daughter to search a bit more. I did walk circles yesterday trying to pick up any sort of blood or sign but came up with nothing. I was about 100 yards from the public land foundry which is the direction that they came from so if it went that way then I am out of luck.

Yea, I was super surprised and happy to find the ball. I was hoping to find it but I thought there was no way. Then I found the hair, then bone fragments, then I say the ball laying there. It didn't hit a tree or anything and man it was mushroomed out. So that was a heck of a hit no matter what. I did think possibly brisket due to the color of the blood, no bubbles and the hair I found. But with the bone fragments I found and the fact that there is lead on the back of the bone fragment, it leads me to believe that a slightly quartering away deer that looses bone from the opposite side of the deer then it could not have gone through brisket and hit bone on the opposite side. If I would have hit the leg with that much ball mushrooming then it would have destroyed her leg and I would have seen her hobbling away on three legs.

All I can do is put in a little more time and see if I can come up with something. I just feel with that much ball damage and bone and that much blood 30 yards away from standing there for 10-15 seconds I should have been able to see more blood and find her.

I hate this part about hunting. This would be my first ML kill so I have no experience with this the way I do in reading an arrow after an archery kill.

Thanks for the help.

All you can do is continue to search...

mainjet........I'm curious about who made the ball? Normally, they don't break up like that.

As for finding the deer? All you can do is look for it during the hunt. If it takes too long the critters will have found her, and it doesn't matter if you find her or not. of course if she's alive, and not hurt that bad you'll never find her.

Sorry, for taking the thread in another direction, but it was related to the topic too. I see too many times someone saying everybody loses an animal. After awhile hunters come to expect it, and that's a wrong attitude to have. Someone will not find an animal right away, and just say to themselves..........Oh well, it happens to everybody, so no big deal. It's always a big deal.

I'm not pointing this at you, but to those who give up looking too fast.

Reference Tracking Dogs...

Dog Use in Wisconsin

It is illegal to hunt deer with dogs. We know this and respect the law.

Note: dogs kept on a leash may be used to follow a blood trail in order to locate a suspected dead deer, provided that the trackers do not possess any firearm, bow or crossbow.

This is great to see. Years ago I asked a warden in Wisconsin the same question and he flat out told me, if he caught me using my dog to track a wounded deer, I would be fined. A dog can track a deer in minutes, compared to a man searching for blood and track. A good tracking dog is amazing to watch.

I would be curious to know the weight of that found ball. That is some amazing expansion it did. Think of the wound channel that ball made.

this will get some hackles up. coyotes got ta eat to.

Yep, bears, cats, and birds too. It's all part of hunting.

Cayugad, good info.

If I was the OP....since its legal in the state... I'd be calling a tracker to see if I could get some help. Those guys and their dogs live for that stuff. If one of them tracking dogs can't find it... likely its not dead. If it ended up being a gutshot, its dead somewhere...they would probably find it in short order.

From what I can surmise from the post and pics that your ball hit the opposite leg below the shoulder blade which would explain the bone fragments and being able to locate the ball. Prior to that the ball did not expand much thereby not giving you a good blood trail or much internal damage.
I suspect that you probably put that ball through at least one lung because even though there is no bubbles in the blood the blood is bright red. I also believe that the deer is dead somewhere. A deer can travel a long way with one lung out but will expire eventually. Your search should encompass several hundred yards. But depending on your coyote population there, it is possible that all you'll find are bones and hair.

My daughter and I went back and searched for a couple more hours. walking in I found a lot of blood but I thought it looked too fresh to be my deer. I told my daughter that it probably is another persons deer. It came from the same area that my deer was shot.

Later I talked to another hunter that said he helped a guy track a deer that he shot that morning. So the blood turned out to be from that deer and really made it difficult to now know what blood you may be following. I don't have access to a dog for trailing but at that point it would be difficult with all the blood from this other deer in the area.

I gave up the search. I do not give up tracking easily. I normally will search for it even if I know that the meat is no longer good. I just like to find the animal and see exactly how I hit it and just learn from the kill. But we searched a lot of area between yesterday and today and being public land with a lot of hunters th enhances of recovery at this point are minimal. Also, today is the last day of ML here in Indiana. So walking through the woods on the last day and last afternoon was not real fair to other hunters if I really believed that I was not going to find it. We tried to hit the time between when morning hunters would have left and afternoon/evening hunters would not be there yet. We hit it good and there were only two cars in the lot when we got there.

Te balls are Hornady Blackpowder. The actual weight I don't know. I am going to weigh an unfired one and the recovered one tomorrow at work to see how much of the ball I recovered.
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Here is some hair from the hit location. I was 20 feet up in a tree stand and about 50 yards away. Slightly quartering away. My aim point was mid rib cage. It's hard t tell in the pictures but the hair is white with light brown tips. bout an 1.25"-1.5"
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The Hornady .530 ball normally weight 232 grains I believe it is. What's left will be most interesting.

Cayugad, I'm a dope. I never thought about weighing the round ball on my powder scale until you said "232 grains". lol

I weighed a couple of the balls and they come up to about 225 grains. The fragment weighed 136.8 grains.

That's unusual. A RB usually stays together pretty good.

That looks a lot like belly hair. I'd bet you may have dropped your muzzle at the shot and hit too low. It is very easy to do if you don't concentrate on following through with your shot. That would explain the squatting/hunching of your deer.

I agree. White hair like that is usually a bad sign. The hit was likely in the brisket, or possibly the rear of the front leg. With either of those hits a deer will go a long way and may live for a day or two, and may even recover from a leg hit.

Don't pay him any attention, he likes to stir the pot every now and then. Maybe he thinks everyone is a sharp shooter!?!?!? :bash:

Maybe you think everybody is a lousy shot, and can't track? Not everybody loses animals. That's a fact.

The majority yes, but not everybody. That was my only point, and I proved it.

The only thing you proved is that people state they have never lost an animal. That proves nothing. For example, I have a yellow unicorn in my backyard that defecates $100 bills. I said it so it must be true, correct?

I guess it's easier to call someone a liar than believe they've done something you didn't.

I'm done with this.

Pete: This reminds me of a thread this month on another website I'm on where a kid killed a huge bull in the Wyoming late season. He showed two pictures of the bull and said he had quickly taped the main beam and it was close to 61", which is a heck of a bull. One of the members that is known to be an argumentative douchebag came on and said there was no way it was that long and guessed the score at 345". He took a great thread that everyone was congratulating the guy on into the crapper. The kid got the boiled skull back from the taxidermist so he can do a DIY Euromount and it scored 369". He then put a measuring tape on one beam and taped it there to keep it in place. He then took a couple pictures and it was 1/8" shy of 61". The jackass who ruined the thread still maintains the bull isn't that big and the beams aren't that long. I've seen the same thing on buck threads on this and other sites where a guy ends up having his rack scored and people come on and say no way is it that big. Some people just can't admit they're wrong and would argue the sun is the moon and vice versa! Such is life and I wouldn't let it bother me.

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!

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In case you didn't read closely what I posted prior to that one of mine that you quoted, here is my message: I'm in Pete's camp on this one and not yours, LOL! :wink:

He wasn't talking about me. That's the problem with forums. Too much misunderstanding, and too many guys who are quick to jump on someone when they have no clue what's being said.

Well I am not trying to beat a dead horse, but maybe you need to reread your own post. You talked about a nay sayer and that seems to be what this guy is. Seems every time someone posts he has to turn it around and make himself the subject instead of the OP thread! So when you started talking about that other thread, I immediately think of Muley _ Sorry!

And if that isn't clear for you here is wha the OP felt about how his thread was going. Maybe this will make it a little more clear.

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