Although I don't think much of them for terminal performance, PBs are normally pretty accurate. I would try going up to the 295 gr and dropping your powder and see what happens. That would be my minimum weight for deer and 348 would be minimum for elk. But since the 348 flies almost as flat as the 295, you might as well jump to the 348 and not have to change bullets later.

Definitely drop to 90 gr or 95 and see what happens. My elk load is 90 gr of 3fg 777.

Also, the lead sled doesn't give at all, so if you are not exactly straight with the sled, it can throw your shot off. I have gone to using mine with NO weight, just the sled and that seems to work well for me. But just for grins, you might just try and go with a sand bag set up and see if that make any difference.

Ok...... the bet for a cola is on

Throw away the powerbelts. I read the following posts and that was recommended by others. There's no other bullet on the market, that you'll find so much negativity about. That is not to say that every single shooter has problems but, when you look at the shear numbers who do and have, stay clear.

If it were me, I'd be shooting the Barnes 290gr T-EZ bullet. The bullet is going to handle anything you'll be hunting. Most CVA rifles shoot them excellent and the easy loading sabot seems to work best in CVA rifles. If they load too easy in your specific barrel, then the 290gr TMZ would most likely work. These are premium bullets.

Another premium bullet you could try, would be the Parker 300gr ballistic extreme.

Some guys like the Harvester PT Gold 300grs bullets. I've tried those but they won't group at the speeds I'm sending them.

If you must go sabotless, then Thor bullets.

Short of any mount, rings or scope problems, my first choice in muzzleloader bullets is and always will be Barnes. The 290gr bullets retain much more energy that light weight bullets, but they are not over kill for whitetail, yet will more than handle elk.

Check and recheck your mounts and rings. Consistent loading is a requirement. Shoot a package of the Barnes 290gr T-EZ bullets and if they don't shoot better, PM me your address and that cola (of your choice) will be on the way

Barnes.....


PS.......... This is what I use powerbelts for:

I also clean between shots, but I always fire off three primers and dry swab the barrel prior to loading. This slightly fouls the barrel and burns off any remaining oils, solvents, etc... This is the routine I use when pulling the gun out of the safe, so I do not mind the time it takes at the range. It also stopped any first shot fliers.

When I was using T7 pellets in my CVA Kodiak and 245 gr PowerBelts, I had a terrible crud ring. Swabbing the barrel did not completely eliminate the ring and caused inconsistencies as I could not seat the bullet with to the same depth and pressure each time. Just a thought, but make sure you are gettin the bullet seated the same each time. I had to use a brass cleaning jag prior to switching to BH 209.

You have stumbled on the most frustrating and enjoyable part of muzzleloading. Load work-up. 250 Shockwave / SST's or XTP's are known for their accuracy, readily available and inexpensive. May want to start their with 90 gr and work the powder up by 5 increments each 3 - 5 shot group. You can then move towards some of the premium bullets mentioned after you have found a reliable starting point & fallback option.

Why are you guys bringing up pellets? He's shooting T7 powder.

Although i'm not a fan of Powerbelts. I've never had a CVA that didn't shoot them accurately, and since when is a squeaky clean barrel the most consistent barrel?

I don't understand the advice from some of you guys?

My advice is to get a breech plug from Western that's designed to shoot BH 209, and use that powder. I'd use the Barnes 290gr T-EZ bullet with 90-110gr of powder. Find out what powder load it likes in that range. Do not swab between shots.

One load for anything you want to hunt.

Brian
You got lots of advise if I were to listen to one person that is Cayugad all these folks are good. But use the simple information Cay gave you for starters.

Thank you Gents,

This is all great info, and I will make some changes to what I am using and doing. I appreciate the help tremendously.

-Brian

So, you're saying that shooting a clean bore, because you're using a lousy powder that creates a crud ring is the best way to accuracy?

Using a better powder that doesn't create a crud ring, and doesn't need to be swabbed isn't a better way to go?

Classic.

"So, you're saying that shooting a clean bore, because you're using a lousy powder that creates a crud ring is the best way to accuracy?

Using a better powder that doesn't create a crud ring, and doesn't need to be swabbed isn't a better way to go?

Classic."


When shooting Triple Seven that crud ring is DANGEROUS. It can lead to false seating, inconsistent pressure from not seating right, and the build up effects the way you seat your projectile. Also if you don't swab, depending on the make of rifle and projectile, it can make seating the next shot near impossible. Triple Seven is a great powder. Its powerful, does not promote rusting as fast as a lot of the powders on the market, and it ignites easy. Much easier then BlackHorn 209.

Also when you "swab" a bore, you do so to get the fouling out. A simple swab will not "clean a bore." What it will do is remove enough fouling each and every time to make it consistent, shot to shot. Sabotloader has proved this time and time again on the range as have other accomplished shooters. When I shoot Triple Seven (which I happen to like) I always swab between shots. That leads to consistency with my shots which helps accuracy.

No one will debate that BlackHorn 209 is not a great powder, because it is. I shoot BlackHorn 209. But if swabbing a bore is the only reason you like BlackHorn 209 go back to a center fire. Remember the problems I had when I shot BlackHorn 209 in my new Optima. I bought that rifle specifically to shoot BlackHorn 209. Kind of dumb, right. And when I was getting misfires, and FTFs, and just lots of problems, the advise poured. Get a different breech plug they said.. I did, and still had problems. Get different hotter primers they said... and I did. The problems almost went away. Now you have to get a drill bit and clean the fire channel from time to time... I did, and guess what, the powder finally worked. BlackHorn is a great powder, but it is no more accurate in my shooting experience then Triple Seven. And with Triple Seven I never needed a different breech plug, I never needed hotter primers, in fact just the opposite. And I never had to scrap the flash channel every five shots. Also I did not have to keep strong gun solvents around to specifically clean the rifle free of BlackHorn fouling at the end of the day.

BlackHorn 209 is not the answer to all shooters problems and concerns. Its just a different brand of powder. Very well liked by many, and not so well liked by others.

I understand the problems with T7. That's why I don't recommend using it with 209 primers. It's better with #11 caps, but still not great.

I had 7 CVA inlines of every model made. They all shot BH 209 perfect, and were all accurate. I even shot two of them without the BH breech plugs. No slow, or misfires.

I believe the majority can say this same thing about BH and CVA guns.

No idea why you have so many problems.

Prior to switching to Blackhorn 209 (which I love), Cayugad walked me through the process and it was apprent that seating consistency was one of my problems due to the crud ring. Obviously switching bullets, powder, charges, sabots, etc... may still have to happen. However, with your current supplies, just for the piece of mind and to eliminate a possible problem:

On the first shot of a perfectly clean gun, load the gun and mark the ramrod where it meet the end of the barrel. That way you should know the depth the charge is supposed to be seated. I use a Sharpie. Fire and do your routine. On the second load, check the ramrod to make sure everything is seated to that same level.

I realize you are using T7 powder, but still worth checking. If it is seating the same on each and every shot... time to adjust another variable (cleaning routine, preshot routine, powder charge, powder, bullet, scope, scope mounts, etc...). Simply change one thing at a time, so you know the result of the change. Enjoy, this means you get to shoot more!