Talk Me Out of Using Powerbelts
 

Hear me out on my reasons for wanting to try them first.

I have used Shockwaves, Hornady XTP's, Hornady XTP mags, and Hornady SST's. I killed 2 deer with the XTP Mags, 2 with the Shockwaves, 1 with a regular XTP and one with a SST. Every deer I have shot with these bullets I have basically gotten a caliber size hole in and a caliber size hole out. I found every deer I shot but every single one ran anywhere from 75 to 125 yards despite double lung broadside shots. Blood trails were sparse to say the least. And the woods are thick in my area of Alabama. A deer that runs 100 yards with a poor blood trail can be a booger to find here. Even using 150 grains of pyrodex I can see no sign that these bullets expanded at all on deer. When dressing these deer the wound channel looked basically like you sharpened one end of a round steel rod and just poked a hole through them. Lethal? Sure especially through the lungs but kind of like shooting them with a full metal jacket. And yet I hear people praising these bullets and their terminal performance online all the time.

All I hear about Powerbelts is that they expand too much. But after my experiences so far more expansion is starting to sound pretty good. I just find it hard to believe that a 295 or 348 grain bullet backed by 100 grains of pyrodex won't shoot through an Alabama sized deer on a broadside rib shot. I fully realize that it is just electroplated lead but still given how overly tough those other bullets have been can these really be that far to the other end of the spectrum?

I've used all the bullets you mentioned plus the Barnes MZs...

You want full penetration and a good blood trail, move to the Barnes...

You want a deer to drop on the spot??? Use any good bullet and go with a high
shoulder shot...

My brother used PowerBelts for years and finally moved away from them for reasons stated...

A jacketed, hollow point pistol bullet gives you the best of both worlds, controlled expansion and deep penetration...Add to this the fact that you can buy them in bulk and couple them with a MMP or Harvester sabot and they are quite cheap to shoot and practice with...

Personally I don't think you have killed enough deer with any of the bullets to form a solid opinion...I prefer to have me and my buddies to shoot 8-10 deer before we decide a bullet is not doing what we want...

I ended up going to the Hornady 300gr XTPs in .429 caliber, it will do all that needs doing to a deer...

If you stay at or below 100 gr of powder with deer sized game, you are probably fine with powerbelts. Shoot them with 105-150 gr of powder and you are asking for trouble. If shot too fast, they blow up and fragment, which may or may not put a deer down soon. That said, I once had a powerbelt pencil through an elk. Missed all the ribs, and went straight through. That was a flat nose though.

I switched to the Hornady FPB. They have a plastic tip up front to encourage expansion and have a lead alloy body to help it hold together. Have had good luck and good accuracy with them, and they are cheaper.

Todd1700, I know you are wanting more expansion, but I think you're going to get too much expansion with Powerbelts. Myself, nor anyone in my hunting group have had good success with them. I've seen quite a few lost deer from Powerbelts.

Barnes, Lehigh, Nosler are all good options. About the same price as the Powerbelts as well. Barnes are probably the easiest on the shelf bullet to find.

Take a look at Speer Deep Curls. Good expansion, and hold together well. I personally like the 240gr...but they have a wide variety of bullets from 240gr up to 300gr that many folks love.

When i got back to muzzleloader hunting in 1999 i borrowed a nice Knight rifle from a friend and bought some Pyrodex and Power Belts. Was hiking along and looked down to see the Power Belt fall out the muzzle of the gun.

Went and bought some XTP bullets and sabots. No Power Belts for this kid.

Hornady FPB is a much better bullet than the Powerbelt, and as an added bonus they're cheaper.

Todd1700,

At what range are you shooting these deer? Bullets expand differently at a variety of ranges and velocities. I have used both Powerbelt's and Shockwaves with great success on each, but have also seen the small exit holes you talk about on the Shockwaves as well. I shoot the CVA Kodiak .50 cal & TC Triumph. I personally only use 100 grain charges as it was a more accurate load. In Southern Michigan, I have shots ranging from 10 yards to 150 yards (my personal limit), so the Shockwave is my go to right now. Would love to get a load worked up for the Barnes line.

If you are looking for expansion and your gun shoots them, look at the Barnes expanders. No personal experience, but from everything I have read there are devastating at most ranges once you find the right load & sabot combination.

I am not going to try to talk you out of Powerbelts. I say, if they interest you, then try them. Form your own opinion, good or bad. I never hunted with Powerbelts, but have shot a lot of them. I always found them accurate and easy to load.. on the range! I too feel they would be a lethal deer projectile. I mean, if I can flatten a white tail with a roundball, why not a powerbelt. Do I think there are better bullets.. yes I do. I think the XTP, Speer Deep Curl, Lehigh, Parker, Barnes, Thors, Nosler, are all better bullets. Can I base that on hunting experience.. nope. Like I said.. I normally kill them with a roundball or a conical bullet.

And since I mentioned conical bullets, IMO from experience.. its hard to beat big lead conical bullets when dropping deer. But I have little doubt a well placed, moderate speed Powerbelt should kill a deer. Just my opinion. But my Optima shoots the 245 grain powerbelts with amazing accuracy. I think with 80 grains of powder, I could really lay a world of hurt on a deer. But I also understand, like you.. I might have a tracking job ahead of me.

I tried powerbelts in my Omega and had trouble with consistant groups regarless of ammount of powder. I have heard they are prone to disentigrating or coming apart.

I have had excellent results with both shockwaves and even the cheap Scorpion Funnel point mag HP's with the Harvester crushed-ribbed sabots.

If your gun likes them you could also try some all lead conicals.

Thanks for the replies guys.

The only powerbelts I had luck with are the 338gr plat. I tried most of them and just had troubles with grouping or seem like they broke apart. With the 338gr plat I kill 2 elk and a bear with no problem. The distances was 20yrds to about 70yrds. The bear ran about 50yrds and fell and the elk fell within a few feet.

Todd1700

I have to tell you I have not read all the responses in this this thread, but I did read your post.

I can identify with some of your problems very easily.

Most of these same problems plagued me when I first started using a ML to hunt with, actually it even goes back farther than that. Even while elk hunting with a 300 Win Mag - I rean into bullet performance problems... Hornady's were one of the worst - I was just plane shooting them to fast from the Win Mag. The bullet would enter strip itself od the copper and the lead would blow up someplace inside. The animal was dead - it just did not know it right away.

I solved that problem when I switched to Nosler Partition bullets... the problem all just disappeared. I had even tried Barnes and the work very well at the longer ranges but were disappointing in the closer ranges. The Nosler worked over a much wider range of velocities.

After my introduction to ML hunting and my disappointments - I found that Nosler indeed made Partitions that I could use in a ML - Once again problem solved... Unfortunately Nosler decided to drop the 44-45-.458 Partition and I was forced to make another decision.

That is when a friend told me - introduced me to a brand new bullet being built back in PA using a completely different theory of operation versus the conventional mushrooming theory that we in the US are totally sold on. I believe Lehigh Dave got the theory form Germany.

But first... this is my theory of how a bullet should work..

The Hunting bullet should be the most lethal big game hunting bullet available. The bullet design should allow the bullet to penetrate 2” to 3”, through bone or tissue, before it starts to expand the petals. After the bullet starts to expand or shed it petals it should adversely affect all the surrounding internal organs. The combination between the expansion of the bullet and/or release of the petals and the creation of hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that can be 13” to 15” long. I believe that in most case the bullet should pass through the body providing a secondary exit hole for blood and debris. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow. Those animals that don’t go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill. Using a bullet matching this description will normally result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot.

The Nosler Partition filled this bill, and for the most so do all the different varieties of solid copper Barnes bullets. For me I have found the Lehigh or now the Knight Bloodline bullets fill that bill to a 'T'. It is not like none of the other bullets will not, because a standard Speer Deep Curl will come darn close also. It is a bullet built along the same lines as the Nosler they are bonded copper to the lead and with a large degree of controlled expansion.

But today I use the Bloodline because I have all the confidence in the world and it has a margin of error built into it in that you do not have to be perfect with every shot to get excellent results.

http://www.knightrifles.com/bloodline-bullets/

They work

This. I will never feel the need to look for another bullet. The price can't be beat and the performance is golden. My muzzleloader has roared with the 270gr .44 cal Deep Curls five times this season. Two were neck shots that dropped on the spot. The other three were heart/lung shots and two dropped within 15 yards and one dropped on the spot. Prior to this season I shot four other times with a DeepCurl of one variety or another and had four very dead deer and no tracking to do. So that's 9 for 9. Why look any farther? :)

Ok
1. You will Be Banished from this site forever
2. A Team of trained Assasin Ninja Monkies will invade your home and kill your puppy while you sleep
3. All beer will be served warm to you
4. You will be forced to watch reruns of the Cosby show and The Gong Show
5. Sacha Baron Cohen will deliver the eulogy at your next of kins funeral
6. All of your Camels will develop herpes from Fleas.
7. May all of your deer develop night vision during the day.
8. Grumpy Cat From Facebook will haunt every Dream you ever have.
9. The Most Interesting Man in the World will Never have you in one of his beer commercials
10. George Zimmerman called. He wants to hang out and party.

I started off with the Hornadys for my Encore and they shot good and I killed several deer with them. One thing I noticed right away is little to no blood trail. Which was fine if you could watch the deer but if it ran into a woods or tall grass it was trouble. I read on here and other sites that the XTP's aren't designed to go as fast as the ML shoots them and they don't expand right on impact, and sometimes can explode into peices. I swithced to Barnes and have had better luck, although I did shoot a buck at about 170 yards last year that I did not find. I don't think the bullet itself was the issue but it did happen. I will try to find some pics but I recovered two barnes bullets from deer I shot last year and the year before and they expanded perfectly. You could not have made them any more perfect if you tried.

Jeez, Todd, dunno.

I've used a lot of different muzzleloading bullets, and none of them have hit like the Hammer of Thor.

300-grain all copper Red Hots have consistently penetrated an entire animal for me, but I also have never had to track one more than ten yards - - if shot through the shoulder they drop like rocks, and when gut shot (I hate to admit it), they've laid down because they've been pretty much disemboweled.

I don't know if you can really do much better than good shot placement, assisted by complete penetration.

I just took a doe this past weekend with a 295 grain Aerotip, with 80 grains of Loose 777. the first shot was about 20yards, quartering towards my. Bullet went in just in front of the front shoulder, hit the spine, went back thru 1 lung, busted 2 ribs on the other side, and lodged just under the hide. Here is the bullet.




She dropped iin her tracks, so I got down and put another one in her at about 10 yards. Second shot went in about the same spot in the neck, and went straight thru and into the dirt under her. (the second shot did not hit where I wanted, but thats a whole other story) Here is the bullet that I dug out of the dirt under her.

Here is the doe..

I just shot a huge doe yesterday with the .452 300 gr. XTP at 21 yds, went in below point of shoulder through top of heart and out behind offside leg.It destroyed the entrance shoulder went through the top of the heart with a 50 cent piece size hole and exited with same size hole, insides were a mess, she made it 60 yds stumbling and falling the whole way... This was w/85 gr. of pyro rs.. Ive killed at least 40 whitetails with the 240 gr xtp`s and none made it over 60 yds, most dead in 30-40yds, killed 1 with the 300 gr. xtp, 2 with the 348 gr. powerbelts, both had softball size entrance wounds and fragments buried in offside ribs where powerbelts exploded, 100 grs pyro pellets both shots around 45 yds(both deer dead but poor performance as far as Im concerned)..know a bunch of guys that had the same thing happen using 100 grs and up, powerbelts need about 85 grs of powder to work right... have a friend who insists on using 150 gr. of 777 w/295 gr. powerbelts and wont believe the bullets are blowing up, hes lost 4-5 deer in the last few years.I wouldnt take 10 powerbelts for 1 xtp..jmho

Here is another 295 grain that I recovered from a doe a few years ago. I dont remember all of the specifics of the hunt. But I do know that its a 295 grain aerotip, with 80 grains of loose 777.

Here is another doe harvested with the same setup, but the bullet was a hollow point instead of an aerotip.

If you use Powerbelts, I'd suggest the heavier versions and using no more than 80 - 90 grains of powder. A lot of people have success doing this. But there are better bullets...

From my own personal experience I can say the following:

If you want good expansion, pass-thru's and blood trails- .452 Deep Curls (250 or 300 grain). I've only used the 250 grainers, but they have a massive hollow point that expands really well, and they also penetrate well. Don't use 150 grains of powder with them, though - I would use 80 - 100 grains, personally.

If you want to drop a deer in its tracks, go with a neck shot or high shoulder shot. Otherwise, it is might run a little ways, regardless of what bullet you are using.

Lehigh's/Bloodline bullets are another good option. I have shot 2 deer with them, and they do a number on deer. Several years ago I shot a nice 10 pointer with the "little" .40 cal 185 grain Lehigh (same design as Bloodline) and only 80 grains of powder. This was quartering-to shot. The buck hopped forward about 15 yards and then collapsed, kicked a few times, and that was it.

However, I've had similar results with other bullets. I actually prefer the 200 grain Shockwaves/SST's. Sometimes I get large exit holes, sometimes small, but there is always a lot of internal damage. Blood trail is largely dependent on if I hit the deer high or low - high hits tend to not give good blood trails.

I'm not the most experienced hunter around, but in my muzzleloading experience I find that shot placement is far more important than the bullet you are using- provided you are using a bullet within its design parameters (i.e. not shooting a 245 grain Powerbelt with 150 grains of powder).

Just my 2 cents...

Because I'm running low on DeepCurls, and I haven't seen any for sale in months! Has anyone seen any for sale? Arrgh!:mad1:

Here's the biggest problem for Powerbelts.

They have a premium bullet price for an average to lousy bullet. It doesn't matter if you're a millionaire. Nobody likes to be ripped off.

You can get 50 PT Golds for the price of 15 premium Powerbelts.

You can also get 50 No Excuses bullets for the price of Powerbelts.

You can get 15 FPB bullets $10 cheaper than 15 Powerbelts.

The point is, all these bullets are better than Powerbelts, and are cheaper. Why would anybody use Powerbelts?

That's a small list. Even as good as Barnes and Thors are they don't cost more than Powerbelts.

Powerbelts have only one thing going for them besides a great sales pitch..........they load easy. That's it!

You forgot they fall out easier too according to some reports :)

Widener's has some.

Cool, thanks! I just wish they carried sabots, so I could combine an order and keep from paying so much shipping and handling.

Now you're getting particular....To do that you need to think ahead and order in the summer, not the middle of deer season!! :)

They group the best for me, and that is a big factor. I have taken 4 Whitetails with the PB, with not one problem yet. Yes, they may be overpriced, but until they give me reason to switch, I will keep using them. I tried the thors last year, and even tho they are suppose to be a good bullet, I could never get them to group as well as the PB.

By the way, if any of you PB haters have any laying around, send them my way, I will gladly take them off your hands.

I've never shot Powerbelts. I've read the many threads discussing them but have always refrained from commenting on a bullet I have no experience with.

But I can't control myself any longer and so will state my thoughts. They are based on the many pros and cons posted by those with actual experience, and my own logic.

Thought #1 - But for the price, I would not be adverse to using Powerbelts.

Thought #2 - A .50 caliber lead ball (which costs next to nothing compared to Powerbelts) will effectively kill deer with a well placed shot. So there's no reason to think a .50 caliber (non-hollow point) Powerbelt would not be just as effective. If you want to pay a buck a bullet for the loading convenience, that's fine and a personal choice.

Thought #3 - I would not use a hollow point Powerbelt.

Thought #4 - With regard to controlled expansion and penetration, a jacketed pistol bullet is very likely superior to either round balls and/or Powerbelts.

There, I've said it. I feel better now and may be able to go a few more years before feeling the need to participate in another Powerbelt thread. :s2:

I finally found the picture of my Barnes bullet pulled from a doe, like I said earlier I could not have split it more evenly by hand if I tried.

PowerBelts will kill deer...I've killed dozens with roundballs which are very inefficient...

But, if I'm going to use an inline, with a scope...I'm not going to use a bullet because it's easy to load and you can load a second shot without cleaning the barrel...

I'm planning to use a bullet that is more aerodynamic and will penetrate and mushroom...That will be a bullet designed to be used for hunting from a pistol, in my case, I prefer .44 and .45 caliber pistol bullets...They are designed to be used at similar velocities as muzzleloaders and when matched with the proper sabot and powder charge they are lethal and accurate...

When I first started shooting a muzzleloader in 2000 I used the Barnes Expander in 250 or 300 gr with Pyrodex pellets. They are very accurate and hold together well. Over the years since I've progressed to using 110 Gr. by volume of BH209 and either Hornady's SST 300gr or Harvester's 300gr PT Gold.. Hunting in S. Texas that load gives me the ability to take the rather ommon longer shot and they have performed well for me. The Barnes Expander or Lehign's new bloodline should provide the better wound channels you are looking for at shorter ranges or when using reduced powder loads. No matter what load you ae using shot placement has far more to do with getting a deer on the ground than its retained energy. Several yerars back I had a nice WT run 125 yds after a well placed shot from a 280. I tried Powerbelts at the range in my Knight Disc Elite and was not impressed with accuracy. Several friens who tried them on deer were not impressed with their performance. All I can say is try them and see.

I shot some whitetails in FL with PowerBelts out of a Rem Model 700ML in .54. It killed those deer just fine, but I recovered every bullet from them. And, these were deer that didn't weigh 150 lbs. I like more penetration than that. I like 2 holes because that lets more blood out and more air in.

So, did the PowerBelts work? Yep. Would I shoot anything bigger with them? Nope. Do I still use them? Nope. To me, they are a "niche" bullet and not an all around hunting bullet. Feel free to disagree if you wish but that was my experience with them.

I use them all the time, drill a hole through them, use them for sinkers on Carolina rigs, someone said they was bullets, but never got good enough accuracy or performance to qualify them as such. try the TC shockwaves or the parker APB's both excellent bullets and I've had them exit every deer I ever shot with them from 40 to my longest kill of 267 yards.
RR

We/I have used nearly 99% of all the bullets listed above. I have as well experienced problems listed with the XTP's. I shoot a knight Disc Extreme 50cal. My brother shoots a T/C. We have came down to the past few years on using the SST's and now this past year and now, we are using the Hornady 225grn FTX, 45 cal. My brother has shot 7 deer with all but one dropping in its tracks, out to distances of 181 yds. The one that moved only went less than 10yds. All had exit wounds of nearly the size of a quarter. I just shot a big bodied buck this past friday AM with my 460 shooting the same projectile. Stood him up like a stallion, head reared back and up as far as it would go to only flip over, no twitch, no kick. I hit him in the brisket as he was facing me at 60yds. Blew a hole the size of your fist out of the brisket and exited just behind the right shoulder. He shoots the same bullet with a black harvester sabot over 110grn T7. He took a 300lb hog last year with it through both gristle plates and exited. And they are $35 for 100!!!

Send me a PM and we can talk. Even though RR has a pretty neat idea though!!!!! They would make pretty Carolina rig sets for catfish!!!!

Use the Powerbelts to weigh down your Lead Sled. :p