Ive gone to painstaking efforts to make sure the ML's I have in my collection shoot to the standard I expect out of them.

With that I mean I do not have a ML in my collection that shoots to one impact point clean and another fouled. They both shoot to the center of the target clean or fouled.



As far as group shooting I agree that some ML's may shoot tighter groupls after a bit of fouling and some may shoot better groups with a clean bore.

Ml's that shoot to different impact points with a clean/fouled bore have no place in my collection.

Then you will miss out on one of the best , a White . Neither you nor falcon better get a White.

If that's true then you must have a small collection .

It's hunting with a muzzle loader people. Most of the time, if not all of the time for some people, you are only going to be taking one shot. I sight my rifle in with a cleaned bore and dried by popping 2 or 3 caps. If I don't get a shot when hunting I leave it loaded and remove the cap or primer leaving a note on the rifle that it is loaded. Since the primers are non-corrosive I do not worry about rust.

Actually have a pretty large collection.i think u missed the part about pain staking efforts.

As far as Whites I own a Bison.Not one of Whites top of the line but a now ML never the less. Shoots as well as I can shoot. Nothing earth shattering or something that will change to world. In the end it's just a good solid plunger ML with a weird cocking/safety system . I haven't hunted with it I years due to the rarity of them.plus it's mighty heavy compared to my Knight plunger models.

I have a CVA MR and after several trips to the range this is what I have found on this rifle. First shot center at 100 yards through a super clean bore, no fouling not even with a primer. The next three shots without swabbing the barrel will group 1 inch and 1 inch high where it was sighted in with a fouled bore. Loading the 3 follow up shots load almost as easy as the first using a 245 Barnes TMZ with the yellow sabot, 77.7 gr. of tripple 7 powder by weight, and Winchester T7 primer. Velosity averages 1925 fps.

CK

Bingo!!!!!! i own one conventional muzzleloader and four scoped inlines. All of those inlines are capable of solid 1-1 1/2 inch three shot groups at 100 yards, including the first shot from a clean barrel. i, on the other hand, ain't always up to snuff.

Yep, White's are nice guns, but i don't need one.

As far as the White's go, a lot of people shoot them with a .503 conical which is pretty loose in the bore. They get there best accuracy when the bore is fouled.
It is my belief that the accuracy is better with a larger conical. I am not contradicting Doc when I say this. He believed in using a conical with a little "windage" so a hunter could load a second shot easily.
His words:
"Experience has shown that the average White designed rifle used in a hunting situation shoots so well with a fouled bore and reloads so much faster without having to clean between shots that cleaning between shots becomes senseless. Most White designed rifles will shoot into less than 4 inches at 100 yards even in the poorest light and from the worst positions. In the best of conditions, they often shoot into two minutes of angle and sometimes less.
This quality performance can be bettered only by using custom sized bullets sized tight enough that cleaning between shots is mandatory in order to get the next bullet down the bore. A hunter might tolerate this difficult loading for the sake of accuracy on the target range, but never in the hunting field.
......
In summary, the best compromise between hunting accuracy and fast loading is the White designed bullet, whether SuperSlug, BuckBuster or PowerPunch, with windage of one thousandth of an inch. A tighter bullet can be somewhat more accurate, but may require cleaning between shots in order to load. A bullet with 1/1000th inch windage loads fast, just a single swoop of the ramrod, and is only slightly less accurate, in the range of an inch or less at 100 yards. Certainly that’s enough to worry about at the target range, but certainly nothing to be unduly concerned over in the hunting field. Consistent grouping and a fast second shot are far more important.
Good Hunting ‘Doc’ White"

Myself, I opted for the tighter fitting conical, I never have done what I was told. ;)

To me it seems your 'way' satisfy all the other people's 'way', and does so, simply/easily. Seems there is nothing left to discuss/argue. Whether or not, one's rifle shoots the first shot on a cold clean bore to the same impact, as following shots, matters not. If one does as described by pluckit any rifle works. All shots taken whilst hunting, will have the same point of impact. Kinda seems any further discussion is moot.

With BH209 I always pop one cap on a clean barrel just be sure breach plug is clear. After that I don't run a patch until I clean up after tge hunt. At the range I've fired up to 15 rounds with no need to swab.