Testing a new 40 Super Sabot
09-03-2013, 02:17 PM
#1
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Testing a new 40 Super Sabot
What now seems like a long time ago, I had a conversation with Del Ramsey, owner/op, of MMP sabots. I thought at the time I was making a simple request. I wanted him to build a sabot that I could use in a 1-20 twist 45 cal. rifle with heavy charges of powder and heavy long 40 cal. bullets. Really I did not think it was an unreasonable request, Del did try to educate me though. I really did no know that it would take a completely different mold to construct this new 'Super Sabot' and I did not know that it could cost in the area of $10,000 to get a new sabot on line. Then to top that off while the 45 is Del's favorite cal., that is not so for America. The 45 cal. rifle is far below the demand for 50 cal. sabots. The percentage is extremely low. Because of this it would be very difficult re-coup the money spent on the development of the 'Super Sabot' considering the demand for this sabot would be limited to the long heavy 40 cal. bullets which very few companies offer. PR bullets, Barnes, and Lehigh/Bloodlines are the three that come to mind. I did send Del some of the longer Lehigh 40x200 grain and 40x230 grain bullets as examples of the bullets I needed the sabot for.
I was somewhat disappointed in my efforts and Del's explanation... but a few months later Del called and suggested that he might have a way to get the project off the ground. Really surprised me that he would respond to a request that might not even work, but he wanted to try it.
Fast forward to last month and Del calls again and says he has the mold ready and just needed time to run some test sabots. He was operating at full bore filling contract orders and did not know when he would be able to run them.
Well, last week another phone call and then a few days later a package of sabots were left at the door. The next day I headed to the farm...
The new red 'Super 40 Sabot' seem to be the real deal... I actually was trying to blow them up at least cause a failure - but of the shots that I took all of them hit their marks.
I did collect the sabots and as you look at the picture you can see that the very outer thin rim of the powder cup took a hit when they came out of the muzzle. But no matter how bad the sabot might look it did not effect accuracy of the bullet.
Now the BAD news, MMP only made a very limited amount of these sabots for testing purposes. All of the sabots that Del had have been sent to other shooters for testing and there are not any left in stock.
More BAD news, because if the limited demand that Del might get for these sabots, he is not sure if he can offer them as a regular product.
Good news... and depending what the other shooters report, from my pictures Del thinks he can thicken the outer-most rim of the sabot and reduce or possibly eliminate the fracturing of the edge that is happening.
Right now I am impressed with the results...
I was somewhat disappointed in my efforts and Del's explanation... but a few months later Del called and suggested that he might have a way to get the project off the ground. Really surprised me that he would respond to a request that might not even work, but he wanted to try it.
Fast forward to last month and Del calls again and says he has the mold ready and just needed time to run some test sabots. He was operating at full bore filling contract orders and did not know when he would be able to run them.
Well, last week another phone call and then a few days later a package of sabots were left at the door. The next day I headed to the farm...
The new red 'Super 40 Sabot' seem to be the real deal... I actually was trying to blow them up at least cause a failure - but of the shots that I took all of them hit their marks.
I did collect the sabots and as you look at the picture you can see that the very outer thin rim of the powder cup took a hit when they came out of the muzzle. But no matter how bad the sabot might look it did not effect accuracy of the bullet.
Now the BAD news, MMP only made a very limited amount of these sabots for testing purposes. All of the sabots that Del had have been sent to other shooters for testing and there are not any left in stock.
More BAD news, because if the limited demand that Del might get for these sabots, he is not sure if he can offer them as a regular product.
Good news... and depending what the other shooters report, from my pictures Del thinks he can thicken the outer-most rim of the sabot and reduce or possibly eliminate the fracturing of the edge that is happening.
Right now I am impressed with the results...
09-03-2013, 04:29 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
What now seems like a long time ago, I had a conversation with Del Ramsey, owner/op, of MMP sabots. I thought at the time I was making a simple request. I wanted him to build a sabot that I could use in a 1-20 twist 45 cal. rifle with heavy charges of powder and heavy long 40 cal. bullets. Really I did not think it was an unreasonable request, Del did try to educate me though. I really did no know that it would take a completely different mold to construct this new 'Super Sabot' and I did not know that it could cost in the area of $10,000 to get a new sabot on line. Then to top that off while the 45 is Del's favorite cal., that is not so for America. The 45 cal. rifle is far below the demand for 50 cal. sabots. The percentage is extremely low. Because of this it would be very difficult re-coup the money spent on the development of the 'Super Sabot' considering the demand for this sabot would be limited to the long heavy 40 cal. bullets which very few companies offer. PR bullets, Barnes, and Lehigh/Bloodlines are the three that come to mind. I did send Del some of the longer Lehigh 40x200 grain and 40x230 grain bullets as examples of the bullets I needed the sabot for.
I was somewhat disappointed in my efforts and Del's explanation... but a few months later Del called and suggested that he might have a way to get the project off the ground. Really surprised me that he would respond to a request that might not even work, but he wanted to try it.
Fast forward to last month and Del calls again and says he has the mold ready and just needed time to run some test sabots. He was operating at full bore filling contract orders and did not know when he would be able to run them.
Well, last week another phone call and then a few days later a package of sabots were left at the door. The next day I headed to the farm...
The new red 'Super 40 Sabot' seem to be the real deal... I actually was trying to blow them up at least cause a failure - but of the shots that I took all of them hit their marks.
I did collect the sabots and as you look at the picture you can see that the very outer thin rim of the powder cup took a hit when they came out of the muzzle. But no matter how bad the sabot might look it did not effect accuracy of the bullet.
Now the BAD news, MMP only made a very limited amount of these sabots for testing purposes. All of the sabots that Del had have been sent to other shooters for testing and there are not any left in stock.
More BAD news, because if the limited demand that Del might get for these sabots, he is not sure if he can offer them as a regular product.
Good news... and depending what the other shooters report, from my pictures Del thinks he can thicken the outer-most rim of the sabot and reduce or possibly eliminate the fracturing of the edge that is happening.
Right now I am impressed with the results...
I was somewhat disappointed in my efforts and Del's explanation... but a few months later Del called and suggested that he might have a way to get the project off the ground. Really surprised me that he would respond to a request that might not even work, but he wanted to try it.
Fast forward to last month and Del calls again and says he has the mold ready and just needed time to run some test sabots. He was operating at full bore filling contract orders and did not know when he would be able to run them.
Well, last week another phone call and then a few days later a package of sabots were left at the door. The next day I headed to the farm...
The new red 'Super 40 Sabot' seem to be the real deal... I actually was trying to blow them up at least cause a failure - but of the shots that I took all of them hit their marks.
I did collect the sabots and as you look at the picture you can see that the very outer thin rim of the powder cup took a hit when they came out of the muzzle. But no matter how bad the sabot might look it did not effect accuracy of the bullet.
Now the BAD news, MMP only made a very limited amount of these sabots for testing purposes. All of the sabots that Del had have been sent to other shooters for testing and there are not any left in stock.
More BAD news, because if the limited demand that Del might get for these sabots, he is not sure if he can offer them as a regular product.
Good news... and depending what the other shooters report, from my pictures Del thinks he can thicken the outer-most rim of the sabot and reduce or possibly eliminate the fracturing of the edge that is happening.
Right now I am impressed with the results...
09-03-2013, 04:35 PM
#3
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 428
That almost looks like the power star sabots that doc white has for there bullets. and that sabot is needed for the longer bullets for the 45cal guns. good work and good report sabot. I called haverest to see if they would make one arond a year ago. ? and I would buy them for my 45cal and would like to see if they would work in smokeless but not looking like that.
Last edited by a1smokepole; 09-03-2013 at 04:40 PM.
09-03-2013, 06:18 PM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
My pack should be here soon and i will see how well they handle smokeless. I know exactly what load will make Harvesters fail. If these can handle that load, they will be a huge improvement. At least i have a better chance with the 230gr FT as my deer load this year.
ATM i can only guess a thicker "skirt" is going to be a good idea. The rest of the sabot looks fine.
ATM i can only guess a thicker "skirt" is going to be a good idea. The rest of the sabot looks fine.
09-05-2013, 12:24 PM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 861
If the sabot won't perform with smokeless then I really don't see any benefit in making it from a financial view for them. The barnes and 200 grain sst are not in any need of a sabot and I suspect that the bloodline bullets are not either. So really it would only be providing just another option in the rare case you can't get the Harvester blues or MMP tans to shoot well. So then you have the PR bullets that it "may" benefit?
As far as a 230 grain Bloodline goes, the only people that have them are the couple people on these forums that are "testing" them. I don't expect it to come out anytime soon if ever because from a financial standpoint for Knight they have to make an actual gun that will shoot them before they can produce the bullets to sell to the public. I suspect they struggle with that thought because do they want another .52 type gun that the majority of muzzleloader shooters will never get on board with? The general public of shooters knows .50 caliber 1:28" twist. Period.
So if this "super" sabot will hold up in a smokeless gun along with a couple .40 cal bullets that are made in the 220-240 grain range it might have a chance. Anything else is just dreaming really. I hope I am proved wrong on all counts (really I do) because I personally want to see heavier, longer, premium .40 cal bullets compared to what is available today along with sabots that will hold up in smokeless guns.
As far as a 230 grain Bloodline goes, the only people that have them are the couple people on these forums that are "testing" them. I don't expect it to come out anytime soon if ever because from a financial standpoint for Knight they have to make an actual gun that will shoot them before they can produce the bullets to sell to the public. I suspect they struggle with that thought because do they want another .52 type gun that the majority of muzzleloader shooters will never get on board with? The general public of shooters knows .50 caliber 1:28" twist. Period.
So if this "super" sabot will hold up in a smokeless gun along with a couple .40 cal bullets that are made in the 220-240 grain range it might have a chance. Anything else is just dreaming really. I hope I am proved wrong on all counts (really I do) because I personally want to see heavier, longer, premium .40 cal bullets compared to what is available today along with sabots that will hold up in smokeless guns.
09-06-2013, 06:54 AM
#7
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
They would hold up just fine but they would be a little long for that weight lead/copper bullet. Which would still be fine if you use the correct loading jag.
They were really designed or brought forward for the longer Barnes/Lehigh/PR lead Bullets and a few others on the market.
And as Del & Chaded have said EVEN if it were to work with smokeless - the demand for 40-45 sabots is extremely low.
The 45 is an excellent deer rifle and shooter but yet the 50 is the far more versatile and outsells the 45 by a huge margin.
They were really designed or brought forward for the longer Barnes/Lehigh/PR lead Bullets and a few others on the market.
And as Del & Chaded have said EVEN if it were to work with smokeless - the demand for 40-45 sabots is extremely low.
The 45 is an excellent deer rifle and shooter but yet the 50 is the far more versatile and outsells the 45 by a huge margin.
09-06-2013, 07:00 AM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
They would hold up just fine but they would be a little long for that weight lead/copper bullet. Which would still be fine if you use the correct loading jag.
They were really designed or brought forward for the longer Barnes/Lehigh/PR lead Bullets and a few others on the market.
And as Del & Chaded have said EVEN if it were to work with smokeless - the demand for 40-45 sabots is extremely low.
The 45 is an excellent deer rifle and shooter but yet the 50 is the far more versatile and outsells the 45 by a huge margin.
They were really designed or brought forward for the longer Barnes/Lehigh/PR lead Bullets and a few others on the market.
And as Del & Chaded have said EVEN if it were to work with smokeless - the demand for 40-45 sabots is extremely low.
The 45 is an excellent deer rifle and shooter but yet the 50 is the far more versatile and outsells the 45 by a huge margin.
and he could keep making 50 cal for everyone else.
