There are the few of us that have known for a long time that sabotless works. Bob Parker built a custom 45cal sidelock to shoot his BEs sabotless years ago.

Tom Post at SwingLock makes a adjustable sizing die for sabotless enthusiasts but im not sure if he makes one for 50cals. I know he makes them for 45cal-6.5mm

Yep,.... he makes a 6.5mm smokeless ML. http://www.swinglock.net/65standardthumb.php 120gr@3400fps

What makes Sabotloader's sabotless testing kind of unique is the powder, cap ignition and caliber. Plus using a solid copper which needs a LOT of pressure for best obturation. He found a 50cal combination that can be pre-engraved enough to impart good rotation and accuracy without using a sizing die or knurling.

Finding a 500S&W bullet that can go from package to bore in a 50cal is a complete crap shoot and pretty much all dies would need to be custom made if your bore is too tight. An adjustable "full form" die works best but they are not cheap. A full form die not only sizes but also pre-engraves the bullet with a cutoff portion of your barrel.

Sabotloader
Im surprised you were able to get that much engraving without a mallet. Im guessing the 6 groove barrel helped. The base on the Barnes XPBs ive measured is also slightly smaller OD than the rest of the bullet. I can start the 45LC-225gr XPB a tiny bit in my Pacnor but it is not going any further without a LOT of effort....maybe im just too skeered to force it.

Ive heard of a few people that have shot the 50-300gr FTX sabotless and BH209 with good results. I was a bit disappointed that my Savage bore is too tight. The Rem 50-385gr CLHP looked like a perfect candidate for sabotless with BH209 and the 1-24 twist. I have a bunch of those bullets left if you ever want to try them. I think i only sent you 3 of them to check for fit.

Semisane

Well as usual you are way ahead of the game...

I am glad that 1-26 shoots that well. The Knight 52 is also a 1-26 and it really have a lot od success with that rate also...

GM54-120

The 6 grooves might be the answer but it really does load well once you get it through the crown. Using the short starter it really does not take that much effort with it.

I did run one of the FTX's that you sent done the Wiseman last night. It seemed to load a little tighter than the XPB's and it did engrave



That is what those bullets are!!! I keep forgetting - Remington 50-385 - Those feel very good for the GM barrels - just wish they were 280 to 300 grains.

I had good luck with the 300gr FTX in the 54cal. Its a little on the tough side. I think the jacket might be thicker than the 45cal FTXs/SSTs but im not sure. It should be a good candidate for sabotless especially with the nice engraving you are getting.

The Rem 385gr seemed to be even tougher. I actually wanted to build a Rem700ML with a longer 54cal barrel to ring the most out of this bullet. It has a good BC for its weight/caliber but recoil is too harsh in my 54-120. The extra weight might help getting a more efficient burn with BH209 and sabotless. Tom Post got a 350gr 458 shooting nearly 2000fps with 120gr of BH209 but that was in a 45cal.

Your Swamp Dragon Rifle is one of the best looking muzzleloaders I have ever seen. How long did it take you to build it?

Semisane

Great shooting!!! but that is in a sabot... I am shooting sabotless just to see if I can get it done.

It seems that more and more people are turning to sabotless bullets for use in a 45 cal rifle with smokeless. I am nt interested in the smokeless part but with the advent of the 50 cal bullets now available - why can I not do that with a 50?