Need help making BP equip. choices . . .
 

I want a BP rifle kit for xmas! I'm not sure about brands, caliber, twist rate, which style rifle?
I want accuracy for hunting. I might want to do some long range shooting. I'm prepared to pay for quality, not novelty.

I should have mentioned that I am only interested in traditional smoke poles, not modern scoped rifles. Like the Great Plains, or Hawkin kind of thing.
Yes I hunt elk, deer, bear, antelope (need good distance).

How do these guns handle sabots? vs. ball ammo?

Well your statement of wanting to shoot long distance... I would look at the Knight Mountaineer, T/C Triumph, or CVA Accura. Depending on what you hunt, if you hunt elk then go 50 caliber. If its only deer and say hog.. then a .45 caliber would be fine.

I would avoid the kits. Instead get a good rifle, a quality scope, and then the accessories on the side as you find you need them.

Welcome to muzzleloading! There are a lot of good rifles out there so that is a tough question. If you are looking at long range shooting, I would suggest a modern, scoped muzzy in .50 caliber with a 1 in 28" or 1 in 30" twist. Good news is, many modern muzzys fit this description.

In terms of accuracy, most modern muzzys will shoot very accurately once you find the right load for them.

I believe that it is very important to go and handle the rifles you might buy, and choose one that "fits" you the best. For example, I have handled and shot some muzzys that are high quality rifles, but I just didn't like how they shouldered and felt.

As for brands, I would suggest T/C, Knight or CVA. Most people would consider T/C and Knight to be of higher quality than CVA, but in my opinion some of the new CVA's are very close in quality to TC and Knight. I would go to some stores and handle the following rifles to see which ones you prefer. Listed in random order:

T/C Triumph, Pro Hunter and Omega
Knight Disc and Mountaineer
CVA Accura and Apex

All of these are good quality rifles that have proven to be accurate.

Thanks . . . but I have good rifles . . . I want a traditional percussion cap smoke pole.

take a look at http://www.longrifles-pr.com/

http://www.possibleshop.com/rifle-kit.html

http://www.jedediah-starr.com/thumbn...&deep=2&cid=19

I'm sure others can suggest more places or recommend certain locks/barrels etc.

I'd need to hear more about you really want. What do you mean by kit? Does that mean you want a production gun with accessories or a production gun in parts that you assemble and finish the stock? Or a bunch of parts from which you would build a gun?

Since you mentioned shooting sabots but want something traditional looking, I would suggest a Lyman Great Plains Hunter. This is available in .50 caliber with a fast twist barrel. It should be available in left or right hand and percussion or flintlock.

Another site you might want to look at is Dixie Gun Works. They have a number of reproduction guns to choose from. If you want something more custom, look at Track of the Wolf's website.

Well let's see Dig4gold; traditional - unscoped - deer, elk & bear - long range (but how long?). Here are my rambling thoughts.

First off, long range means a good quality peep sight like the Lyman 57 or a one of the Vernier style tang mounted ladder sights.

I would think long range + elk = at least 50 caliber. It would also exclude balls unless your "long range" thoughts are something in the 150 yard range (in which case a .54 or .58 ball may do the job).

Now, you included sabots in the equation. Sabots give you a wider range of options. I would think a quality .452 diameter 300 grain bullet in a sabot will reach out to 300 yards with the accuracy and power needed for your game.

But a barrel with a rate of twist suitable for large powder charges under a round ball won't be worth a hoot with long bullets in a sabot. So you'll need to decide which way you're going to go with the bullet.

OK, let's say you want a ball shooter good for game out to around 150 yards, and target shooting well beyond that. I would be looking for a Thompson Center Renegade or Hawken and a Green Mountain "replacement barrel" in .54 or .58 caliber barrel with a 1:70 twist. Other options might be the .54 Lyman Great plains or the Pedersoli Rocky Mountain Hawken.

Now if you decide a sabot shooter is the thing, you should be looking for a .50 caliber sidelock with a 1:28 rate of twist. Once again you will be likely be seeking something with a Green Mountain replacement barrel in that twist.

Other more exotic options might be paper patched bullets in a .50 caliber, if you willing to spend a lot of range time finding the right load combination, or even a .58 Minnie ball shooter which again would take a lot of tuning to get an accurate long range load.

And I've only scratched the surface of possibilities. Ain't muzzleloading fun?? :s2:

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sche...-standard.html

but not available in kit form

Your best bet might be to contact Pecatonica at the first link I posted previously and discuss your requirements with them. I'm sure they can come up with a combination of components (kit form of sorts) that could come very close to your criteria.

The Lyman Great Plains Hunter in kit form is actually made by Investarms and might also be a decent choice.

http://store.thirdgenerationshooting...m/4,11455.html great price but not a kit

Semi, make him up a kit Swamp Dragon. ;)

KIT: Parts I would assemble.
Example: I'm looking at the Lyman Great Plains rifle in either .54 or .50, but both have a 1:60 twist.
And I am preparred to spend bench time working up a load. "Shoot more . . . shoot more often"!
I know 300 yards is way out there with iron sights . . . just not sure what these types of rifles are capable of and would want to spend the money on one that can deliver ethical knockdown at distance.
I took my Antelope at 550 yards this year. I load my own and practice these shots though and am very confident in taking them.

Contact Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading.

http://www.avsia.com/tvm/index.html

they sell kits and the rifles and parts are top quality. If you go Flintlock, a Seiler or Chambers lock is best. Barrels.. there are lots of choices. Rice makes an excellent barrel. And for calibers they run from 45 to 62 caliber. So the sky is the limit there. Most of the kits are under a thousand dollars.

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/m...ins-hunter.php

“The Great Plains Hunter model features a fast, 1 in 32" shallow groove rifled barrel. It's ideal for shooting the many types of modern projectiles available to today's black powder hunter, such as heavier conical bullets and sabots. The Great Plains Hunter has all of the highquality features of our Classic Great Plains rifle. It is also pre-drilled and tapped for the optional 57 GPR receiver sight for the Great Plains rifle."

Here you go...Mark Silver in either .58 or .62 should fit your bill, just made for those big old bull elk!!! It's as traditional as you can get...... :)

http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles04.htm

So to shoot sabots, you would recommend 1 in 32" barrel?
They have those in both 50 & 54 cal. I'd lean towards 50. I already have BP darrtingers so not completely unfamiliar.

If I really wanted to shoot sabots, I would look for something like a 1-28 twist. I have a Great Plains Hunter .50 caliber flintlock. It shoots sabots pretty good. But to be honest I think it will show its true colors with a conical bullet. Once I find the right one.

And I am the first to admit.. traditional, open sights, I just can't shoot long distances and get the kind of accuracy I would demand, to shoot those distances hunting. There are some here that can do it. Don't get me wrong. And maybe you're one of them. So the best of luck to you.

I just can't see why one would want to shoot sabots out of a sidelock...Roundballs are killers out to any distance you can hit them with open sights....

The Lyman Great Plains rifle is a fine rifle and .54 is the longest range size for practical hunting.

I'm showing my ignorance and the basis for this inquiry.
I didn't realize they made conical bullets and sabots . . . I was thinking they were the same. I should have known better.
Conical bullet would be fine. Obviously better ballistics than a ball.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...u=000156031111 There you go. That's about as close as you will find to what you are after, but that isn't the end of the story. You can have fun finishing and putting that one together and it should be a good rifle, but the barrel it comes with is most definitely for round balls. Who's to say you can't have some fun and get the feel of the rifle using round ball.

But, you will need an aftermarket barrel with a fast twist of 1:24 to 1:28 to shoot conicals and the faster twist would probably be better if going for long ranges. I'm sure such barrels are available for that rifle, I'm just not sure where... maybe someone else can chime in with a suggestion. You will also need a high quality sight.

You could try the 1:32" drop in barrel for the Hunter but it probably won't get you where you want to go. A 1:32 twist would likely not do nearly as well as a faster twist model. You are also going to be looking at heavy conicals for the longer ranges. They will shoot in a rainbow arc but pack one heckuva punch even way out there.

Another piece of advice would be to call Doc White and see if he might have something to interest you.

http://www.whitemuzzleloading.com/my...raditional.htm

Oh, you might also call Lee Shaver and see if he could help you out. I would try to become a little more educated before calling him though. http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/hst...StoreFront.bok

Doc's Sporting rifles should be excellent long range conical shooters.
http://www.whitemuzzleloading.com/my...ng%20Rifle.htm

Not sure why you think there would be a lot of difference between 1:28 and 1:32...my suggestion to the original poster would be read up on people's experiences shooting sabots and conicals out of the GP Hunter rifles if he might be interested in that rifle. Just start Googling and check out posts on various forums.

Doc's sporting rifle would be a great choice but maybe not immediately available.