Sighting In A Muzzleloader?
 

If I am sighting my muzzloader in at 50 yards, how high would the shot need to be to be on at 100 yards? I am completely new to muzzleloaders.

I'm shooting the TC Impact, 100 grains of Pyrodex, and a 250 Shockwave Sabot.

if it is dead on a 50 it should be about 2 inches low at 100

I used to be more then ready to tell you 2 inches high at 50 puts you in the bull at 100 yards. But I found that is not true. It depends on the rifle, the bullet, the powder, and the conditions you shoot. What I would do is sight in one inch high at 50 yards, then back off to 100 yards and see what happens.

My guess (based on looking through my targets with similar loads) is if you sight it in for one inch high at 50 yards, it should be a half inch high at 75 and dead on at 100.

thats true, humidity, elevation, temp,all kinds of factors,
where I live a 50 yard zero is 2 inches low at 100 and a 100 yard zero is 1 inch high at 50.

Very true.. that's one reason I stopped trying to figure these rifles out.

Best to shoot it at different distances, out to your max range to be sure.

Like the others have said, it can depend on a lot of factors. But with the load you described, from my experience 0.5" - 1.0" high at 50 yards should put you close to dead on at 100 yards. Only way to be sure is to test it, though.

IBingo: i scope and sight in a lot of muzzleloaders. There are too many variables to predict accurately where a gun sighted in at 50 yards will shoot at 100 yards or further. The most extreme case was a gun sighted in to hit center of a 2" bullseye at 50 yards when loaded with 100 grains of Pyrodex and a 250 grain SST bullet. The same gun with the same load shot over 4" low at 100 yards.

...Deleted by CalHunter... Shoot it at 100yds. The animal deserves that much respect.

I agree. Not only is it more ethical, but it is also much more fun to be shooting your gun. You will also end up knowing for sure what your guns is doing.

...Deleted by CalHunter... Please tell me where I said I wasn't going to shoot it at 100 yards. I was just trying to get a good idea before I start shooting at 100. ...Deleted by CalHunter...

...Deleted by CalHunter... Since you want to take it that way.

I guess you're calling the others idiotic who agreed that you should shoot at 100yds?

i used a 200 grain slug, pushed by about 120grains of bh209, 2 high at 50 has me 4 high at 100. Using your setup id stay you should be deadon or close to it at 100, depending on how high your scope mounts are.

No, I know I should shoot it at 100 yards. Never said I wasn't. Sorry for asking a question on a discussion forum. ...Deleted by CalHunter...

Thanks for the input fellas.

BPbowhunter92

Your question seemed valid to me. I didn't respond, because i didn't know the answer, but i figured somebody would. I still don't know the answer, but i will guess that if you are 1" high at 50 yard with your load, you will be dang close to zero at 100 yard.



I wish Muley wouldn't have written For a learner to ask the learned, is a fine fine thing, and should be encouraged. Myself, i have learned quite a lot reading this forum. There are many helpful folk that read and write to this forum. Things i have learned reading this forum have made my muzzle loader experience more better. It seems to me, it is OK ease one's learning, by asking questions. Every new scientist doesn't have to do the same experiments that were done to bring science to where it is now.

I'll tell you why I put it that way. I've seen more than once guys ask similar questions, and then use the info without ever shooting the range they asked about.

Nobody could give an accurate answer to him. All they could do is give their best guess. I don't think guessing should be involved in sighting in a gun.

The best answer I could give him was to shoot at 100yds. Which he claims he was going to do anyway. Then why bother to ask the question. It wasn't going to be off more than a couple of inches.

I gave an honest answer to him. He didn't like honesty.

You could have been a bit more tactful. For all we know, he may value honesty. I wish you wouldn't have written that his question shouldn't have been asked.

I felt strong about making a point. He gave no clue about shooting at 100yds.

The guy is new to muzzleloading and asked a question in a respectful manner. There is no need to be rude to him about it. It is better for people to feel free to ask question when they are learning to shoot smokepoles.
Welcome to the forum BPbowhunter92. Be careful, shooting these rifles is addicting.

I didn't get the feeling he was new to shooting. CF, ML, handgun, or bow. It's all the same when sighting in.

Since when have hunters become so sensitive? Cripes!

I'm not the type to sit around the campfire singing and roasting marshmallows.

I think Ron makes a valid point about people learning the sport being able to ask questions of others with more experience. That helps a person learn a little quicker and also can help you learn a much better way of doing something. That's a large part of why we have the different forums--so hunters with more experience can share with those who have less experience and/or are just trying to learn more.

I edited several posts between BP and Muley above that violate the rules and don't reflect well on themselves, HNI or all of us as hunters. Gentlemen, you're free to continue the discussion and topic--just don't argue or flame each other cause that makes a lot more work for moderators. ;)

I have not got into muzzle loading yet but am curious about the range issue. I know if centerfire (and especially in rimfire) rifles, most rifle purists recommend shooting the actual range you plan on shooting. But then there's a guy named Jack O'Connor who always recommended sighting in about 3 inches high at 100 yards so you be dead on at approximately 275-300 yards. Jack shot a lot of animals and he obviously got lots of chances to see where his rifle(s) shot at 300 yards.

My question is this--Is there a similar formula for muzzle loaders using range data like that or are muzzle loaders too inconsistent or load specific to use a general formula like that?

Cal........I agree that someone new to the sport should feel free to ask questions. However, we should also be free to say..No! Don't do that! when we feel it's a bad idea.

From his reaction to me. He doesn't seem like the type who's sensitive, and will run away. He spoke his mind, and I let him. No harm done.

I completely agree that you and other more experienced hunters should offer advice. Often such advice was learned the hard way and is invaluable in saving a fellow hunter from learning the hard way also. However, if you remember back to when you were a new hunter and/or BP's age (whatever his age may be), exactly how well would you have honestly accepted or considered the same advice you gave which admittedly made a less than flattering assumption not necessarily corroborated by text? I'm guessing you might have got your dander up also.

When we're young, we think we know it all and often don't want to listen to advice, especially if we think it is given with a false assumption in mind. As we get older, we (and I fit squarely in this generalization) tend to forget how we sometimes struggled and learned things the hard way when giving advice to a younger person. We know why it works the way it does (not always the obvious option) but tend to just tell them do this without "explaining" why it works that way and, perhaps more usefully and importantly, how we learned the same lesson the hard way when we perhaps made the same incorrect assumption about an issue or formula.

You could say nothing and BP would probably get along fine without shooting at 100 yards until he got to that one time when an inch or less miscalculation in trajectory means a wounded animal getting away or a flat out miss. At that point, he would probably ask a more detailed and technical question about the same topic.

You could use sarcasm and/or make assumptions which might not be true and BP would simply get his dander up and no way would he even bother to think about your answer (the one without the explanation).

Or, you could give him the answer WITH the explanation and then him run off with it to do as he sees fit. If he's smart, he will apply it, test it and confirm it as it's pretty dumb to ignore honest advice from an experienced hunter--stuff like that can dramatically increase your hunting skills. Or he can simply ignore the good advice and eventually learn the hard way or just spend the rest of his hunting career wondering (or not) why he misses on critical shots where he didn't have an inch of trajectory to spare.

I'll admit that it's extremely frustrating when somebody asks for your advice, you give them good advice and they ignore it. It's almost like you're talking to a politician who doesn't care because you're not big money.

At some point in that person's life, however, they will eventually learn or at least suspect that you did give them good advice. They may never use it or may never tell you or get the chance to tell you that they finally used it and, surprise, surprise, it really did work and you were right. That's often how life works.

I can almost guarantee you that at least one more person and likely several more people have read this topic and are trying to apply what you shared. They just don't know why it was important to do it that way yet because you haven't shared. that is also how life works. People you never talk directly to can and do learn from you.

Regardless of which way you decide to share advice or not in the future, I at least would appreciate the route with more information supplied because I happen to read these topics and learn from them. I would also appreciate both of you guys not carrying the argument to a semi-flaming level which violates rules because then I have to write a big post like this and try to remember those English writing skills I learned in college as a wee young lad fresh out of the Marine Corps. Now play ball and no more fouls or violations. ;)

Ok, point taken. I know i'm too direct sometimes.

I'm old, and get that way sometimes. ;)

Wait till you get older. It gets even harder. :D

I don't think anybody wants to hear i'll get worse. :eek:

Thanks to the guys who actually gave helpful advice (...Deleted by CalHunter...). I am definitely not new to hunting, just new to muzzleloaders. I have taken SEVERAL P&Y bucks over the years as a bowhunter. I just didn't want to start out shooting at 100 and not even be close to the target. I figured a ML would be a lot different from sighting in a rifle since they do not shoot as far. I'll be headed to the range in the next few days!

I'd 2" high at 50 and then check it at 100 yards. Im always surprised to see how low or even how high i shoot when ive adjusted to a certain area at 50 yards. I remember one of my guns is 3" high at 50 and 6" low at 100!

Put some powder in it then.:s4:

them hawken rifles with that brass plate hurt my skinny shoulder

Hope i can get this right.

First off, i don't believe individual muzzle loaders are too inconsistent to form trajectory generalizations. My experience is only with in-lines, so isn't really so very broad. In general, my generalization will be...............the 275-300 yard O'Connor wrote about reverts to 170-190 yard when sighting in 3" high at 100 yard with an average muzzle loader load of 250g or 300g bullet, and 100g powder in a 50 caliber rifle.







sabotloader has posted several ballistic charts of muzzle loader loadings, using the concept of maximum point blank range.



Remember that the 275-300 yard max pbr was for his .270. For the 30-06 it became 265-290 yard if i recall correctly. Eleanor' 7mm Mauser also had less of a pbr than the .270. Today many many rifles can and do shoot to the 275-300 yard pbr identified, and explained by O'Connor--many don't. Some that probably do are the .223, .243, .280, 7mm magnum, 300 Winchester................. Some that probably don't are the .308, 30-06, 7.62 x 39, .358 Winchester, 444 Marlin, .458 Winchester...............



The furthest shot i ever made on a deer was around 230 yard, and i did it using the max pbr method by guestimating hold. That rifle was sighted in 3" high at 100 yard, and the cross hair was held high on the deer.



Nowaday, we have scopes with fancy reticle, and cds dial. A lot of us no longer use the concept of maximum point blank range when sighting in our rifles. For 40 year, i did as Jack O'Connor taught me to do. Every month we eagerly waited for the newest Outdoor Life. We dreamed of hunting like he wrote about. O'Connor taught us to fill a .270 case full to the top with 4831 powder, and that is what we did. No weighing or measuring other than the case itself. We loaded them bullets using the old Lyman tong tool. Eventually we purchased a scale. I guess the load was right at max, about 62g. Today, my rifles are all sighted in exactly at 100 yard. Using moa elevation changes, allows for shooting at virtually any range within reason.



My favorite long range load is out of a 45 caliber rifle. It doesn't follow the 'general' muzzle loader guidelines at all. This rifle is sighted in at 100 yard. Last year by twisting the cds dial to measured ranges i killed deer at 125 yard or so, and 170 yard or so. After hunting season during the doldrums of winter, i did a lot of shooting at 300 yard and beyond.

One day i decided i wanted to try for a 1/4 mile shot. Three shots were taken with a 50 rifle, and all missed.







Using the chart as the guide, i twisted the elevation dial up 19 3/4 moa, on the 45, and somehow the shot was made first try.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...-1-4-mile.html

That jug shot was the first and only shot ever taken at 452 yard with that rifle, and it followed script perfectly. My opinion is muzzle loaders are not too inconsistent to use a general formula.

Thanks Ron. It's interesting to see the similarities. Someday when I get the time... :D