Help w/ Omega loads
 

I'm new to the forum and have a new Omega w/ a new Redfield 2x7 scope and plan to shoot BH209 with a 44 cal/.430 XTP bullet in either the 300 gr. or 240 gr. configuration w/ a green 4-petal smooth sabot and a 209M primer. I've killed a lot of deer w/ both of the XTP bullet weights/sabot combination w/ BlackMag powder out of a Knight 93, but this is my introduction to the BH209 and the Omega. I plan to sight in at 100 yards. Any loading information, tips, and performance experience w/ this combo would be most appreciated.

Chances are the barrel will be too tight for the smooth Harvester sabot. Perhaps you could try the crush rib sabot, that is what fits my Omega. In my Omega, i use W209 primer to ignite BH powder. Loading 90g works for me, as does 110g and mostly anything in between. If you never get chances to shoot over 100 yard, 90g powder is plenty, if it is accurate in your rifle.

Omega Load
 

I use to have an Omega Z5 model and the load it liked best was Hornady's 300 gr. SST-ML High Speed Low Drag sabots, 2 777 pellets, and standard Winchester 209 primers.

In my Omega I shoot almost exclusively the .429/240 and .452/300 Speer Deep Curl HP bullets with green or black Harvester Crush Rib Sabots. This is pretty close to the XTP which I've also shot quite a bit. The regular green or black sabots may work fine with you, they may be pretty tight.

I started at 80 grains and worked up, settling on 110 grains of BH 209 for both bullets. Type of primer, CCIMag or Rem STS, did not seem to matter.

My Omega preferred bigger bullets. 300-340 gr.

I shot 110 gr 2F T7 (loose) w/ Win 209 primers. Nosler Partition 300 gr that came in the package with the sabot included shot MOA and 340 gr PR Dead Centers shot sub 2 inch groups at 100 yds.

HA

decoykrvr

I used an Omega for many years... I shot to primary bullets out of it both Noslers a .451-260 grain and .458-300 grain. Both bullets were powered by 110 grains of T7 or sub BH for the T7 not much difference in FPS and were awesome bullets. I used the regular HPH-24 sabot and the MMP HPH .458-50 Orange sabot. No problem loding these at all, but it was on older Omega - the new Omegas are suppose to have a tighter barrel. No matter I would still run a 100 strokes of JB's bore paste through the barrel.

Good luck

Agree with sabot loader on the JB bore paste. My experience with Omega's is that they will shoot a wide range of bullets including the XTP and especially the 250 grain Deep Curl and SST and Shock Wave. The ones I have had experience with always shot best between 90 and 110 grains of Blackhorn. The bores have varied but usually would except the smooth Harvester after bore pasting, some times it is necessary to go to the crush rib.I would suggest starting with a 100 grain load and trying both the 90 and the 110 load after sighting in. You will probably fine that the Shock Wave is the most accurate as far as tight groups is concerned if you should decide to use them I recommend the bonded one for hunting large game. Try both the 250 and 300grain I normally fine the 250 most accurate but a lot of people have found the 300 grain to be most accurate in there gun. The XTP is a usable bullet I used them for years and killed a lot of deer with them I did find that using a bonded bullet like the Deep Curl or the Bonded Shock Wave makes tracking easier because of the consistent exit hole.
If you chose to go to the expensive bullets the Lehigh is the best but I like the Shock Waves because I can practice with the cheaper bullets and the bonded ones shoot into the same group.

I am new here as well. I was wondering if I needed a felt wad w/ the no excuse 460 when I already have teflon tape applied. I am in hopes that I get good accuracy from my omega. i already herd all the bad news about omegas and conicals. I already get 1" groups at 100 w/ .452 300 deep curl. i should be happy but cayuad makes me want the 460 too. He tells of what an awsome bullet it is and I am hoping for a conical shooter out of my omega. thanks

454 - I will tell youthat I use a 'shot card' under the bullet when shooting T7. T7 burns realy hot not as hot as BH nut , hot enough that with the heavier lead bullets - you may melt some lead and spray it all over the bore... I suppose a felt wad might help also but I feel much more confident with the solid shot card...

Shooting lead conicals from your Omega may be a problem beyond your control...

In some cases you might not get resolved because not always does TC get the QLA square with the bore. The way TC makes their barrels can lead to an off-center QLA - not always but sometimes and when it happens they will not shoot lead conicals very accurately. Both my Omega and the my Triumph on the other hand do shoot conical well...

This drawing might explain what I am trying to..





mike

thanks for responding but what is a shot card and like you already mentioned it could very well be out of my control. I have never used anything but sabots and possibly I may just send these to cayuad as he has what it takes. I cant get better accuracy from the .452 300 deep curl or .430 300 XTP and jacketed hydra con 300. 110 grains of blackhorn 209 regular cci 209 w/ o-ring under the primer. I have an excellent set up and all these work very nicely snuggled inside of an mmp short black. Thanks sabotloader, I have been following your many post for along time now and I have learned so much. i just decided to get involved so I joined

oh, I forgot to mention that I am real samiliar w/ QLA. I know the omegas reputation.

familiar i ment to write.

Track of the wolf. I looked up shot cards and I guess I'll order some and take your advice. If this system shows bad accuracy as you mentioned too, the QLA is the problem. Good news is the .454 300 DC is always there. Thanks for the visual you sent of the QLA and such, very well drawn. Thanks alot.

I have the exact same gun. It has a very tight bore. My load after much experimenting:

300 grain Harvester Scorpion PT
Harvester Crushed Rib Sabot
100 grains BH 209
Rem STS Primer

When I went over 100 grains of powder, I lost accuracy. The above load is boring to shoot because it dead on all the time.

The scorpion PT Gold 300 shoots well out of mine as well. I use the short mmp black but the crush rib works too. The Omega really has alot of good qualities for a simple muzzleloader. Sabotloader from reading his post directed me towards the deep curl 300 along time ago and that is my hunting round now. i would have tried the nosler if it was available. I do think the 300 .430 nosler would be worth looking into one day. Kevin

This Nosler Bullet appears to be available right now, and is at a very good price for a premium bullet. It worked better than any other bullet on water jugs, and on deer it is so very destructive to lung tissue.

The following link shows the bullet at work.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...er-bullet.html

.454 Do not discount your Omega before you try it 2 out of 3 including an Omega have shot the 460 really well, I only use that kind of bullet where I had no other choice as the rainbow trajectory is a pain; but with a 70 grain load of BH mine will hold 1.5 inches at 100 yds which I consider excellant for conicals. All of them will shoot the 350 grain FBP from Hornady better than the flat base conicals and flatter with a 90 gain load.

I am glad you did join... this is really a good place. And I still learn here everyday. That is what is really all about. Some of the things mention are on the spot, others you kinda have to take with a grain of salt, and for sure not everyone does everything the same. You will find what works for you... as a lot of us here have...

mike

At this point I am not sure I would invest in the Nosler.. t is a great bullet but it will be available only for a limited time and then will be gone as the old supply drys up.

If you are able to load a 458 sabot in your bore and I think you can if you run the JB treatment - then the best all-around bullet out there for a ML might be the .458-275 grain Bloodline.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...G_Bore_Pellets

This is a short video about running JB's - you really do not need the fancy tools but the product works...

This is the 300 grain - but the 275 looks just like it a little shorter though...



But hey, there is nothing wrong with the Deep Curl

I did see the .451 300 nosler still available. I believe my bore already runs a little larger than most omegas. I would like to try a few .458's, i noticed that the 460 no excuse was a bit small for my bore, enough that i applied teflon tape just to get some resistance. No, I have not lost hope yet w/ this bullet, it's more that i have decided, do i really need it. I think staying w/ a sabot set up is my best bet. The .458 300 remington, bloodlines, .458 300 triple shock x HP, and especially the original 300 spitzer flat base. I think the .458 would be the most accurate versatile bullet in the omega, I think. I need to shoot a few to find out. ,452, .430 definately do. Awile back I called Toby and told him how I applied the scorpion's tips that allen set me from harvester to the .430 300 XTP and boy did that shoot nice. I actually did not speak to Toby directly left this message and awhile later I see he did some work of his own w/ the .430 XTP and the tips on one of his sites. Anyway, nice experiment that was fun. Yes, alot of my stuff I do today in muzzleloading came from you guys. It's alot of fun. Great example, I just dont get blow back nor do I put grease on my plug, have used tefon tape on my plug since sabotloader stressed on the fact thats all one needs. My plugs dont get stuck, nothing but a good operating system. sorry for rambling on so long. I am just thankful.

I like the .458s but i would avoid the Barnes 300gr Triple Shock (with the small hp) and the 300gr Original at sub speeds. They work ok in a hot Savage load but need more fps than subs can provide for reliable expansion. The 300gr SOCOM or the 300gr TSX FN with the big hollow point do fine at 45/70 and ML speeds.

Ive shot many Barnes Originals and the high BC is worthless up close and once it is of value, the speed has fallen well below what it needs to expand. If you can achieve atleast 2100fps MV things change a bit but its still a very tough bullet.

yes I remember now. The original is a savage bullet due to the speeds it can reach, randy wakemans bullet of choice. I was thinking the .458 275 bloodline may need that extra push too, or not. basically what your saying is stay w/ 45/70 speeds and that will be in the omega's speed range. 1900 is a good place to be w/ around 110 grains blackhorn. 290 TEZ, 285 MZ Spitfire may be a good choice too. I think sierra may have some good stuff as well.

Yep :D

Common 45/70 load data and 50cal MLs can produce similar velocities. The Savage can easily exceed a 45/70 except for maybe Ruger #1 load data. The 458-325gr FTX is a good choice if you want a higher BC and still get reliable expansion down to about 1300fps.

Retained about 250gr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83y1ezzHznM

It will rock you a little bit too though. :D

I am ordering the .458 300 remington and give that a shot. The omega has the thumbhole laminate, heavy but accurate and i have been impressed w/ the new redfield on top. It's really a nice set up.

The 458-300gr Rems and Sierras are both good bullets. They don't cost a fortune either.

.458 300 deep curl

Doesn't exist.

unicor 300 .458, I will just stay w/ speer because I can not only afford to shoot speer but also you cant go wrong w/ the make up of this projectile. .452,.458 300 for the bigger stuff and the .452 250 for the deer around here is plenty.

South Dakota, what is the hunting like there. I am thinking big elk, deer, moose and grizzly? possibly moutain lion. Vermont is very boring unless you travel 4 hours into maine or get up around the canadian border. South Dakota I am thinking one could get killed.

Here is a link to the construction of a few .458s
http://shootersforum.com/big-bore-le...thickness.html

Notice how thick the plating is on the Speer. I will post the cross section pic of the bullets when i can find it. New Barnes Originals 300gr Spitzers are actually .035.

A thick jacket can be a benefit but sometimes they can be less accurate too. A lot depends on the jacket material and lead purity. Thinner jackets and a pure lead cores are often very accurate and very effective on game if they have enough mass.

I haven't shot the Speer 458 but i can tell you the Rems, Hornadys and Sierras are far more popular than the Speer 458s.....At least with Savage owners shooting under 200 yards. It might be the concave base hurts accuracy at those speeds.

Found it
Speer----------Hornady------Remington------325gr FTX



This 458 SOCOM forum has lots of good info on 458 bullets at speeds very similar to our muzzleloaders.

http://458socomforums.com/index.php?board=14.0

No moose here, nor Grizzly. Lots and lots of lion. Not much chance of getting killed by an animal. No big wolf packs here yet.

In Montana, the Grizzly is a real issue. We used to kill them during hunting season, and they ran from us; these days one cannot shoot at them except in self defense. These days, Grizzly come running toward the gun shot, thinking they heard a dinner bell. A wolf pack can be quite threatening i imagine, but i have never experienced such. Our son now carries a handgun during archery season for defense against wayward grizzly, and/or wolf. We've long hunted along side lion, but that has never been an issue.

My Omega .50 likes 2 777 pellets and most of the 200-300gr. bullets, shockwaves, XTP's, SST's and the Cheapshot hollowpoints with either the black sabots or the yellow SG sabots. Actually it shoots most bullet/sabot combinations pretty well with the 2 50gr (100gr) 777 pellets. The thing it does not like is any of the PowerBelts. I haven't tried any other conical type bullets. It is basically a sabot rifle, although maybe some conicals will work, just haven't had a need to try them. I shoot PRB's and Maxi-Balls out of my carbine sidelock when I use it.

The powerbelt not being accurate is not a big loss. The SST in my opinion has a track record like the shockwave, not good. I believe there the same bullet made by hornady. Although sabotloader swares by the 200 shockwave as the BC is up there. 300 low drag SST would be my choice if I were to hunt w/ it. The Omega loves the jackated Hydra Con 300 and that almost always finds it way out both sides. I hear some compare it w/ the Barnes original, a smaller version. If you would like to try it let me know, I have no problem sending them at no cost. plus it gives Bob parker some advertize. Bob is a great guy who has done a lot for me so I pass it forward.

GM- Thank You.

.454,

This a .452-300 grain Deep Curl. You can see a small piece of copper right at the bottom of the hollow point in the lead (left hand picture - the saw cut it out of the right side). This and the contruction of the nose and copper petals is the difference between the Deep Curl and the Unicore.

The piece of copper you see inthe lead is the device they use to controll the expansion of the deep curl.

Its a nice looking mushroom that deep curl when its at expansion. I see why you call it a poor mans nosler. Barnes,nosler and deep curl all have a well constructed design. Gold Dot and deep curl I believe are the same but the name was swapped due to legal reasons. Law enforcement has something to do w/ it.

In court... if you shoot some one with a bullet designed for hunting you are possibly liable for all incidental damage the bullet might do. If you shoot with a 'home defense' bullet as the Gold Dot is lableled - the court situation changes... So no Gold Dot's are not labeled a hunting bullet.

Here are some I really tried to destroy... they held up really well..

I have found that BH 209 85gr and Barnes T-EZ 250 gr have worked very well in my Omega.

The TEZ works good in mine too as does the MZ Spitfire 285. I spend most of my time shooting the .454 .452 300 deep curl at around 30.00 for 50 w/ shipping. The 300 scorpion PT Gold you may find to shoot nicely out of your Omega w/ the crush rib sabot. I have not had the chance to harvest anything w/ any of these but I feel confident they will do nicely if the opertunity presents itself. The guys here have a lot of hunting experience so I follow their plan. Sometimes it's ok to be a copy cat.