White Super 91
 

Hello everyone. I am new here and this is my first post. I have a White Super 91 .50 caliber that I bought new many years ago. I haven't shot it for several years now. When I was shooting it I was using 90 grains of ffg black powder and a 460 grain Superslug using percussion caps. I don't think Superslugs are available anymore. I did order some "Noexcuse" 460 grain slugs that I haven't tried yet. I also have the 209 primer breech plug set up from White that I have never tried. I am looking for some recommendations for a black powder substitute/209 primer/bullet combination and would greatly appreciate any help I can get. Sorry for all the questions. I haven't done any black powder shooting for a very long time.

Thoughts... I really hope the .503-460 grain No Excuse work for you. They actually might be to loose to fit in the bore. Not all but many Whites have a large 50 cal bore and you might need a .504 even a .5045 conical to fit your barrel correctly. First time you go to load one you will know.

I really do prefer to shoot T7 powder vs real BP or Pyro, it somewhat cleaner and not near as corrosive. If you were to continue to shoot caps you probably would not run into the crud ring problem.

You might make yourself some Windex patches to push down between shots if fouling were to become a problem..



When I first got my White Umag I switched to 209 ignition and shot that for quite awhile, but have recently changed back to cap ignition and will stay with it in a plunger gun. I use #11 Mag caps.

Cayugad, Sharpshooter, and Flounder will jump in here at some point and they both are White shooters with a lot of experiance...

I personally like to shoot Triple Seven 2f in my White Rifles. If I am deer hunting 65 grains of powder and a 460 grain Bull Shop Conical is what I would use. I have shot the No Excuses, and they do fine. But my rifles are Model 97's and I still use the #11 caps. I see no reason to change, even though I have a 209 adaptor.

If I were hunting something larger, say elk or moose I would load 80 grains of Triple Seven 2f. I want to point out, I am not one of the skilled shooters that would ever try a 200-250 yard shot. 150 yards is my max range with a muzzleloader. Only because that is all I can practice to.

Your rifle should do fine. If you find the No Excuses that are .503 too loose, paper patch them or give them a wrap of teflon tape. Also if you shoot off a fouled bore, that helps with loose fitting conicals. So do not swab the bore. Just have fun and shoot.

My White has a scope. But off a bench rest, it will really shoot.



65 grains has a lot more power then you might think. For deer I believe its all I need.



And these conicals get good expansion.

If the no excuses are to loose and a fouling shot doesn't help you , you could try Steve at White rifles. Last I spoke to him he had several power punch bullets which I think are cast a bit larger then the no excuses.My super 91-11 likes either bullet with around 90gr of T7 . I swicth back and forth from the number 11 to 209 ignition and both POI are the same from my rest.

I will probably be a black sheep but my Super 91-11 does shoot sabots and pellets very well too if you want to take a try at that. XTP's and Deep Curls both work for me in the 300gr version. As for cleaning Sabotloader hit the nail on the head with the windex mix.

I have a peep site on mine but many have the plain williams rifled site or a scope.Either way you have a very sought after gun and a great shooter I am sure.

Steve

sabotloader, cayugad, sbuff. I appreciate your quick replies. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear from actual owners of these rifles after hours of research. I didn't know that White made these rifles with different bore diameters. I just checked mine and .504 caliber is etched on the barrel. Other than the White 460 grain Superslugs I have no preference for bullets. I did try White's saboted slugs years ago but they didn't shoot well from my gun. I do have some untried "Noexcuse" bullets. As far as percussion cap verses 209 primer I have never had any problems with percussion caps on my Super 91. Heck, I didn't even know Winchester made percussion caps. sobotloader; thanks for the tip on the Windex and T7 powder. Never heard of the Windex tip. cuyugad; thanks for back up info on the T7 and Bull Shop conicals and was very impressed with your pics. bstuff; thanks for your help also. I am not sure how to contact White.

Also a super 91 owner, my experience is limited to about 100 rounds.Both white ss 480 g. and no excuses 460 g. proved to be too loose with the clean barrel that I prefer to shoot. Using a one layer wrap of white teflon tape on both bullets produced a good slip fit and groups under 2 inches at 100 yds. with t73f loads of 75-90g. RWS #11 caps were used without a wad. Also bullshop 460g. .504 fit well on a clean barrel without the teflon wrap,but have not been fired and there seems to be some question if they will be available in the future. steve

Frogfurr ,contact Steve at - [email protected]
He can help you with parts and bullets.

Steve

Welcome to the forum Frogfurr. Good to see another White shooter aboard. I would stick with the #11 caps if I were you.
Art

I second that. all my Whites are #11 and I haven't had a problem with that set up.

Frogfurr like other White shooters have said welcome to the forum. Its just too bad your White isn't a 451 instead of the 504. Every White owner knows the 451 is far superior!! LOL Private joke among us White owners. Seriously, No deer will know the difference.

Ed

That's not a joke, that's a fact. ;)

Ah! com-on you 2... a 45 better than a 50:hit:

I shoot the 370gr TC maxi bullet out of mine. It has excellent accuracy with 100gr of pyro P. Welcome to the forum.

I was shooting REAL conicals out of my .504 one afternoon with 50 grains of Pyrodex P it was amazing how accurate those homemade conicals were.

Dave, I confirmed the other day that 60gr of Pryodex P or 777-2F shooting those 350gr HP Gould bullets that I cast for my 451 M97 produces a ML velocity around 1200fps and provides me GREAT accuracy. At 75 yds I was making one large hole. I hope to be able to try them out on a nice fat doe come our early ML season.

frogfurr,
If you are going to do much conical shooting at all, my advice is to get set up for casting. I decided to start casting my own when I could no longer buy conicals from bullshop. I got a lot of help learning to cast from some experienced casters like ed mehlig.
When you cast your own, you can size the bullets just to the diameter your barrel likes them and you can be as fussy as you want about how perfect you want your conicals to be, the rest just go back in the pot.
When you make your own, you have to spend a few bucks getting set up but once you are ready your bullets mostly just cost you time and a few cents for the lead.
Then you can practice all you want and not break the bank. Be careful though, because casting bullets can turn into another addicting hobby.
Just my two cents, take it for what its worth.
Art

I cast a .458 diameter LEE bullet. Its listed as a 405 grain flat nose, but with pure lead, mine usually come out in the 420 range. Then I shoot them out of the Knight Sabots in some rifles and I size them down to .451 and shoot them out of my M97 White. With 60 grains of Triple Seven 2f they are very accurate. And have a good thump down range... I wish you luck on your bullet testing. Hope a nice doe comes out for you.

Flounder... did you get a chance to get in on them molds we all had LEE make fore us. The UC Short Mag we called them in honor of Underclocked. They really shoot nice out of the White. Some day I am going to break down and get a mold like Batchief's trash can and start casting them. I have seen the accuracy they produce for him and others and its amazing. Also I can not think of a critter in North America that could take a hit from one of them.

I have one of those UC short molds that I got from Ed. I also have a Mountain Mold that casts a bullet that is very close to the chief's trashcan. They are both good bullets. Next I need to get a mold made for my .451's.

Dave, just went and ordered that mold from Lee. I'm in the experimentation mode again and I thought I would try that mold out.

Thanks...Ed

If you find your gun needs larger than .503" NoExcuse will size to your request.

That is really good to hear. I like their bullets and they are great to deal with.

Goat, is this a change for Dave? the last time I talked to him, which was couple of years ago, he would not size to fit my UMag? But yet I thought he was making bullets for Steve @ White Rifles...

It is news to me too sabotloader. It is for sure a good thing if he is now offering different sizes.

he wouldn't size for me either last time I ask, which was earlier this year. It would be nice if he is doing that now. I know he would undersize them at request .500 but to make a .504 instead of his
.503 he wouldnt do.

U-all remember you can still get bull shops from Dan you just have to do it by snail mail...

Just to make sure I call him right now and see what might be going on... Guess I will not call him - the number has been disconnected...

I hope that is true Pete but I don't think it is. I bought some lube from them in late spring and they said that was it, I am pretty sure Dan is out of the casting business for now but I might be wrong. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=bullshop

Since the phone is also disconnected - I guess and I hate to see it but they might be done... Hopefully like Tina said when they get relocated they will re-establish...

Well, it's been a few years since I talked to NE. So maybe he stopped custom sizing?

Thanks for all the replies. I do have the 209 primer kit for my Super 91 but have never tried it because I never had any trouble with the #11 caps when using black powder. I was concerned about ignition with the #11 if I ever tried a black powder substitute. I'm going to give the triple 7 a try. Still trying to figure out a good 50 caliber bullet though. I like a pure lead conical bullet. Are the Power Punch bullets still being made?

When I talked to Steve at White Rifles last month he had 451 and 504's I think Doc might have some also

Thanks. I'm going to have to give White a call. I kind of thought that they were out of business.

They are but Doc still has a few things and still sells some guns or builds them for you. Steve at White rifles has a lot of parts and bullets. He will email you a parts list as he never has got the online store back online

Use his email on page one and Steve will reply back. I have his number some place in my gun safe but would have to search for it.

PM me an email address and I can send you PDF file with the parts that Steve has on hand. He does have Power Star bullets...

Would that list by any chance contain a plain naked barrel (no breech/no sights/no ramrod thimble/etc) at a real good price? :s1:

no it does not.. .sorry

It seem bullshop is in business again. Dan is posting on the castboolits site. The only way I know of to contact him is by pm over there.

Hey Art that is great news!! It sounds like he was able to work things out.

Ed