Elk Hunting BP rifle recommendations
07-17-2012 | 12:07 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Spike
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8
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From:
Elk Hunting BP rifle recommendations
I'm new to hunting with a BP rifle, but not new to hunting or BP shooting. Been doing some reading lately and there seems to be a wealth of data on muzzleloaders anymore. So instead of enduring additional info overload, I figured I'd get some opinions here.
With all the different bullets & accessories for them, different length twists and calibers floating around I am quite confused as to what I could possibly need. I want to put together a percussion kit that I will be able to put an elk down at up to 150 yds and maybe even 200 yds if possible. I also want to pour my own lead. Don't know if lead is going to be sufficient at 150+ distances or what caliber/twist/bullet combo will even throw it fast enough. Also here in MT we have no limitations on the use of BP equipment. And I'm not interested in any inlines either.
So what's gonna get the job done ? There's entirely too many options/combinations out there producing different results for me to consider a purchase at this point. Hopefully you guys can help me clarify the info overload I got going on.
With all the different bullets & accessories for them, different length twists and calibers floating around I am quite confused as to what I could possibly need. I want to put together a percussion kit that I will be able to put an elk down at up to 150 yds and maybe even 200 yds if possible. I also want to pour my own lead. Don't know if lead is going to be sufficient at 150+ distances or what caliber/twist/bullet combo will even throw it fast enough. Also here in MT we have no limitations on the use of BP equipment. And I'm not interested in any inlines either.
So what's gonna get the job done ? There's entirely too many options/combinations out there producing different results for me to consider a purchase at this point. Hopefully you guys can help me clarify the info overload I got going on.
07-17-2012 | 12:55 PM
#3
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,193
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
If your wanting a traditional style rifle that can kill elk out to 200 yards, that is a challenge. Since your talking traditional I am sure your not talking scope. So that means a very good sight on the rifle. Next you want to throw lead.
Let me point out, long range shooting with open sights is not impossible, but it takes gun skills, good techniques, practice, and finding the right load for the rifle you shoot. Also it takes good eyes. But I am sure you would not be attempting this if you did not have the shooting skills to pull it off. I shoot a lot, but with open sights.. that's too far for me. Even with one of my lead throwing rifles. My eyes just would not permit that.
Are you going to build this rifle or buy it off the rack? While there are some excellent made commercially produced rifles out there, if it were me.. I would be looking for a 50 caliber that could handle big lead conical bullets. Bullets in the 425-500 grain range. Now a large pure lead conical bullet can and will get the job done at 200 yards or less. But to be realistic, that is some long shooting.
If you were looking at an inline rifle I would tell you find an 50 caliber White Model 97, 98, or Super 91 in .504 caliber. And then cast some 460 or larger conical bullets and work up a load with 100 grains of powder. I would feel with a good peep sight, and a lot of practice, that would be a 200 yard elk rifle.
Now a while back, Green Mountain Barrel Company did sell a 50 caliber barrel with a 1-24 twist and a traditional tube style scope I think made by Leatherwood that fit on a T/C Hawkins stock. With that barrel bedded, that would be a 200 yard rifle. Granted, once you found the right conical bullet to shoot. Green Mountain Barrel Company also made some 1-28 twist barrels that shot conical bullets very well. Many of the members purchased them. I own two of them. But I have shot conicals out of them and again.. I am not a long range shooter but they do shoot conical bullets well.
If you were to try and get closer to the elk, say 125 yards or less.. then a 54 caliber roundball or 58 caliber roundball would do the job. Even a 50 would probably, but I would always go bigger to be on the side of caution. These rifles are out there. Lyman makes a fine roundball shooter. Called the Great Plains Rifle. They also make a conical shooter (I own one) called the Great Plains Hunter. It does shoot conical bullets and sabots well. Maybe not to 200 yards in my hands but in a skilled set of hands and good eyes, that all might be possible.
My Great Plains Hunter does shoot powerbelts very well. And I do mean very well. But really, all a powerbelt is to me is an over grown roundball. But a 405 grain powerbelt out of that rifle might get the job done. I never shot any conical that heavy out of mine. So I can not comment on how well it might do. But I have shot a few Hornady Great Plains conicals and it did very well with them out to 50 yards.
So because of the distance you want to shoot. The fact you want to shoot lead. My recommendations would be the White Rifle if you went inline. Traditional style I would look at a Great Plains Hunter in 50 caliber and start testing conical bullets, or the Green Mountain Barrel with the 1-24 conical barrel.
If you want to get closer and still shoot lead... the Great Plains Rifle in .54 caliber or a Green Mountain barrel in 54 or 58 caliber.
Let me point out, long range shooting with open sights is not impossible, but it takes gun skills, good techniques, practice, and finding the right load for the rifle you shoot. Also it takes good eyes. But I am sure you would not be attempting this if you did not have the shooting skills to pull it off. I shoot a lot, but with open sights.. that's too far for me. Even with one of my lead throwing rifles. My eyes just would not permit that.
Are you going to build this rifle or buy it off the rack? While there are some excellent made commercially produced rifles out there, if it were me.. I would be looking for a 50 caliber that could handle big lead conical bullets. Bullets in the 425-500 grain range. Now a large pure lead conical bullet can and will get the job done at 200 yards or less. But to be realistic, that is some long shooting.
If you were looking at an inline rifle I would tell you find an 50 caliber White Model 97, 98, or Super 91 in .504 caliber. And then cast some 460 or larger conical bullets and work up a load with 100 grains of powder. I would feel with a good peep sight, and a lot of practice, that would be a 200 yard elk rifle.
Now a while back, Green Mountain Barrel Company did sell a 50 caliber barrel with a 1-24 twist and a traditional tube style scope I think made by Leatherwood that fit on a T/C Hawkins stock. With that barrel bedded, that would be a 200 yard rifle. Granted, once you found the right conical bullet to shoot. Green Mountain Barrel Company also made some 1-28 twist barrels that shot conical bullets very well. Many of the members purchased them. I own two of them. But I have shot conicals out of them and again.. I am not a long range shooter but they do shoot conical bullets well.
If you were to try and get closer to the elk, say 125 yards or less.. then a 54 caliber roundball or 58 caliber roundball would do the job. Even a 50 would probably, but I would always go bigger to be on the side of caution. These rifles are out there. Lyman makes a fine roundball shooter. Called the Great Plains Rifle. They also make a conical shooter (I own one) called the Great Plains Hunter. It does shoot conical bullets and sabots well. Maybe not to 200 yards in my hands but in a skilled set of hands and good eyes, that all might be possible.
My Great Plains Hunter does shoot powerbelts very well. And I do mean very well. But really, all a powerbelt is to me is an over grown roundball. But a 405 grain powerbelt out of that rifle might get the job done. I never shot any conical that heavy out of mine. So I can not comment on how well it might do. But I have shot a few Hornady Great Plains conicals and it did very well with them out to 50 yards.
So because of the distance you want to shoot. The fact you want to shoot lead. My recommendations would be the White Rifle if you went inline. Traditional style I would look at a Great Plains Hunter in 50 caliber and start testing conical bullets, or the Green Mountain Barrel with the 1-24 conical barrel.
If you want to get closer and still shoot lead... the Great Plains Rifle in .54 caliber or a Green Mountain barrel in 54 or 58 caliber.
07-17-2012 | 01:46 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Spike
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From:
And there's that info overload thing again 
.
This rifle I will build. Not interested in buying anything off the rack....... and 200 yds is not a must, but 150 is ! Open sights it will not be. Traditional tube style scope for sure I'm thinking. My eyes and skills are pretty good but at 150 yds it gets to be a partial guessing game to some degree for me. I'm not completely comfortable with open sites at looooong range.....
Let me throw this out there too before going too much farther.... I'm not he!! bent on lead only either ! If there are other bullet option to be used in a traditional rifle, I am here to discuss just that.
. This rifle I will build. Not interested in buying anything off the rack....... and 200 yds is not a must, but 150 is ! Open sights it will not be. Traditional tube style scope for sure I'm thinking. My eyes and skills are pretty good but at 150 yds it gets to be a partial guessing game to some degree for me. I'm not completely comfortable with open sites at looooong range.....
Let me throw this out there too before going too much farther.... I'm not he!! bent on lead only either ! If there are other bullet option to be used in a traditional rifle, I am here to discuss just that.
If your wanting a traditional style rifle that can kill elk out to 200 yards, that is a challenge. Since your talking traditional I am sure your not talking scope. So that means a very good sight on the rifle. Next you want to throw lead.
Let me point out, long range shooting with open sights is not impossible, but it takes gun skills, good techniques, practice, and finding the right load for the rifle you shoot. Also it takes good eyes. But I am sure you would not be attempting this if you did not have the shooting skills to pull it off. I shoot a lot, but with open sights.. that's too far for me. Even with one of my lead throwing rifles. My eyes just would not permit that.
Are you going to build this rifle or buy it off the rack? While there are some excellent made commercially produced rifles out there, if it were me.. I would be looking for a 50 caliber that could handle big lead conical bullets. Bullets in the 425-500 grain range. Now a large pure lead conical bullet can and will get the job done at 200 yards or less. But to be realistic, that is some long shooting.
If you were looking at an inline rifle I would tell you find an 50 caliber White Model 97, 98, or Super 91 in .504 caliber. And then cast some 460 or larger conical bullets and work up a load with 100 grains of powder. I would feel with a good peep sight, and a lot of practice, that would be a 200 yard elk rifle.
Now a while back, Green Mountain Barrel Company did sell a 50 caliber barrel with a 1-24 twist and a traditional tube style scope I think made by Leatherwood that fit on a T/C Hawkins stock. With that barrel bedded, that would be a 200 yard rifle. Granted, once you found the right conical bullet to shoot. Green Mountain Barrel Company also made some 1-28 twist barrels that shot conical bullets very well. Many of the members purchased them. I own two of them. But I have shot conicals out of them and again.. I am not a long range shooter but they do shoot conical bullets well.
If you were to try and get closer to the elk, say 125 yards or less.. then a 54 caliber roundball or 58 caliber roundball would do the job. Even a 50 would probably, but I would always go bigger to be on the side of caution. These rifles are out there. Lyman makes a fine roundball shooter. Called the Great Plains Rifle. They also make a conical shooter (I own one) called the Great Plains Hunter. It does shoot conical bullets and sabots well. Maybe not to 200 yards in my hands but in a skilled set of hands and good eyes, that all might be possible.
My Great Plains Hunter does shoot powerbelts very well. And I do mean very well. But really, all a powerbelt is to me is an over grown roundball. But a 405 grain powerbelt out of that rifle might get the job done. I never shot any conical that heavy out of mine. So I can not comment on how well it might do. But I have shot a few Hornady Great Plains conicals and it did very well with them out to 50 yards.
So because of the distance you want to shoot. The fact you want to shoot lead. My recommendations would be the White Rifle if you went inline. Traditional style I would look at a Great Plains Hunter in 50 caliber and start testing conical bullets, or the Green Mountain Barrel with the 1-24 conical barrel.
If you want to get closer and still shoot lead... the Great Plains Rifle in .54 caliber or a Green Mountain barrel in 54 or 58 caliber.
Let me point out, long range shooting with open sights is not impossible, but it takes gun skills, good techniques, practice, and finding the right load for the rifle you shoot. Also it takes good eyes. But I am sure you would not be attempting this if you did not have the shooting skills to pull it off. I shoot a lot, but with open sights.. that's too far for me. Even with one of my lead throwing rifles. My eyes just would not permit that.
Are you going to build this rifle or buy it off the rack? While there are some excellent made commercially produced rifles out there, if it were me.. I would be looking for a 50 caliber that could handle big lead conical bullets. Bullets in the 425-500 grain range. Now a large pure lead conical bullet can and will get the job done at 200 yards or less. But to be realistic, that is some long shooting.
If you were looking at an inline rifle I would tell you find an 50 caliber White Model 97, 98, or Super 91 in .504 caliber. And then cast some 460 or larger conical bullets and work up a load with 100 grains of powder. I would feel with a good peep sight, and a lot of practice, that would be a 200 yard elk rifle.
Now a while back, Green Mountain Barrel Company did sell a 50 caliber barrel with a 1-24 twist and a traditional tube style scope I think made by Leatherwood that fit on a T/C Hawkins stock. With that barrel bedded, that would be a 200 yard rifle. Granted, once you found the right conical bullet to shoot. Green Mountain Barrel Company also made some 1-28 twist barrels that shot conical bullets very well. Many of the members purchased them. I own two of them. But I have shot conicals out of them and again.. I am not a long range shooter but they do shoot conical bullets well.
If you were to try and get closer to the elk, say 125 yards or less.. then a 54 caliber roundball or 58 caliber roundball would do the job. Even a 50 would probably, but I would always go bigger to be on the side of caution. These rifles are out there. Lyman makes a fine roundball shooter. Called the Great Plains Rifle. They also make a conical shooter (I own one) called the Great Plains Hunter. It does shoot conical bullets and sabots well. Maybe not to 200 yards in my hands but in a skilled set of hands and good eyes, that all might be possible.
My Great Plains Hunter does shoot powerbelts very well. And I do mean very well. But really, all a powerbelt is to me is an over grown roundball. But a 405 grain powerbelt out of that rifle might get the job done. I never shot any conical that heavy out of mine. So I can not comment on how well it might do. But I have shot a few Hornady Great Plains conicals and it did very well with them out to 50 yards.
So because of the distance you want to shoot. The fact you want to shoot lead. My recommendations would be the White Rifle if you went inline. Traditional style I would look at a Great Plains Hunter in 50 caliber and start testing conical bullets, or the Green Mountain Barrel with the 1-24 conical barrel.
If you want to get closer and still shoot lead... the Great Plains Rifle in .54 caliber or a Green Mountain barrel in 54 or 58 caliber.
07-17-2012 | 02:41 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have 4 traditional rifles that I wouldn't be afraid of using at 200 yards on elk.
A 451 English sporting rifle 1:20 twist with a Soule sight, a hawken 50 cal 1:24 twist with a 6x Malcolm tube scope , my GPH 54 cal with 1:32 twist and a 451 Gibbs with a 1:18 twist with a creedmore sight. Anything along those lines will serve you well for what you want to do . Heavy lead to sabots adds lots of options. I will leave it at that so as not to get into info overload for you
A 451 English sporting rifle 1:20 twist with a Soule sight, a hawken 50 cal 1:24 twist with a 6x Malcolm tube scope , my GPH 54 cal with 1:32 twist and a 451 Gibbs with a 1:18 twist with a creedmore sight. Anything along those lines will serve you well for what you want to do . Heavy lead to sabots adds lots of options. I will leave it at that so as not to get into info overload for you
07-17-2012 | 02:51 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Spike
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From:
I have 4 traditional rifles that I wouldn't be afraid of using at 200 yards on elk.
A 451 English sporting rifle 1:20 twist with a Soule sight, a hawken 50 cal 1:24 twist with a 6x Malcolm tube scope , my GPH 54 cal with 1:32 twist and a 451 Gibbs with a 1:18 twist with a creedmore sight. Anything along those lines will serve you well for what you want to do . Heavy lead to sabots adds lots of options. I will leave it at that so as not to get into info overload for you
A 451 English sporting rifle 1:20 twist with a Soule sight, a hawken 50 cal 1:24 twist with a 6x Malcolm tube scope , my GPH 54 cal with 1:32 twist and a 451 Gibbs with a 1:18 twist with a creedmore sight. Anything along those lines will serve you well for what you want to do . Heavy lead to sabots adds lots of options. I will leave it at that so as not to get into info overload for you
.What are you slinging out of each of those ? Can't imagine you're using the same bullet in all of them ?! This is what I'm trying to get a grip on I guess. All the different twists and what goes best out of them and maximizing it all for power and distance.
07-17-2012 | 03:49 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,722
Likes: 0
From: Kerrville, Tx. USA
I would probably build a 50 cal hawkins:
http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/346...l-in-the-white
Here is a link with several other selection choices:
http://possibleshop.com/rifle-kit.html
Either 1:48 or 1:28 would do OK, you can use the big lead conicals (like no excuses, maxiballs, great plains hunt, etc) or I have good luck with Hornady 350 gr FPBs. I have killed two elk with them.
http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/346...l-in-the-white
Here is a link with several other selection choices:
http://possibleshop.com/rifle-kit.html
Either 1:48 or 1:28 would do OK, you can use the big lead conicals (like no excuses, maxiballs, great plains hunt, etc) or I have good luck with Hornady 350 gr FPBs. I have killed two elk with them.
Last edited by txhunter58; 07-17-2012 at 03:51 PM.