Biggjimm

Anybody using either of these 209 conversion kits that use small rifle or pistol primers?
http://www.fortune3.com/bpbullets/pr...=188&group=187
http://www.muzzleloadingbullets.com/...r_adapter.html
I'm kind of a if it's not broke don't fix it guy, but I do realize that sometimes things can be improved even though they're not broke. These guys are saying the 209 ignition system really is broke in a sense. I understand that they're trying to market a product but if there's any truth to what they're claiming maybe a less powerful primer would be better. Basically what they're saying is besides being a very dirty primer that the 209 primer has so much energy that it actually lifts the bullet off of the powder charge prior to igniting the powder charge & that results in poor accuracy. All my 209 fired muzzleloader have been pretty darn accurate. My Black Diamond XR holds 1/2" groups at 100yds all day long. The cleaner aspect of it seems like a plus but the thing that bothers me is all the handloader guys tell me that neither the small rifle or the small pistol primers are waterproof as the 209 primers are. I don't know about where you guys hunt but here in N central IN, muzzleloader season is hardly ever a fair weather event. Just curious to any experiences with these products.

ronlaughlin

Both of the systems you linked to worked for me. Both make for a lesser crud ring when using 777 powder. Neither worked to ignite Blackhorn 209, which is what i now use. If you use a powder other than BH you may find one of them system to be the cat meow.

However, i can't really say i think it is worth the trouble.

txhunter58

I used it for awhile when I was using 777 in an Omega, but as above, I now use BH 209 and there is no need. Also, the specific 777 209 primers are reduced without having to work so hard. So, no I really don't see a need for this any more.

Slow Burn

Biggjimm,
I experimented with a similar adapter as the variflame; I made several of these when they first started using the 209 primer system. Some ML's it seems to have no effect and others it seems to greatly improve accuracy. I had a TC Encore which would not group better than 4"@100 yds. I used the same load combo of 120 gr Pyrodex RS and a 300 gr SST and switched to a CCI 400 small bore rifle primer and now its a tack driver. On the flip side I have the Endeavor and it doesn't make a difference and my son's CVA Optima shoots the same with either. The biggest difference is the price of the primers; you can load the 400 smallbore primers for less than 6 bucks. Quite honestly you would probably better off with the 209 if your ML is shooting accurate. If it aint broke dont fix it. I hope this helps you make up your mind.

V/R
Mike

The_Hunter323

Would the variflame adapter help the rem 700's blowback problems or would the blow back be the same?

sabotloader

Would be about the same because your Remington even though it has a bolt is not a bolt it is a plunger gun. Pressure pushing back on the primer will push the hammer in the bolt back.

I did a conversion a few years back to eliminate the problem... I wonder if I can finds those threads...

I know I have some pictures...



This picture shows how I turned down the hammer and inserted a bolt face in the nose of the bolt.



Here is a pic of the conversion



I found one of the threads

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...converson.html

And here is one another guy wrote

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...onversion.html

Chapter 3 - but still have not found the first one...

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...-700-farm.html

Think I found it...

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...onversion.html

lots of reading - but back then it was fun to work on this...

Biggjimm

What is this Blackhorn powder I keep reading about? I always used Pyrodex RS until the 777 came out. 777 is much easier to clean up. I had a .45 cal barrel on my Encore last year & the best I could get at 100yds was 4" groups but T/C had a problem with the rifling in some of the .45 barrel. Wrong twist rate. So I swapped it back to my LGS for a new unfired .50 & I haven't shot it yet but my intentions were to run 777 in it (loose powder not the pellets) unless this Blackhorn stuff is better. Also I'm gonna check into a local guy who's making smokeless muzzleloader barrels for the Encore that they say are getting crazy velocities & one hole groups at 100yds. Not sure the $$$ yet but I hear they are a little pricy.

The_Hunter323

blackhorn 209 is a powder that gives you better velocitys compared to pyro and 777. I also think its a little bit cleaner too

Biggjimm

Thanks. I'll have to see if my bud at the LGS can get some for me to try out.

Gm54-120

Biggjimm

If you want to try a Smokeless 45, you can convert a 45/70 barrel from either T/C or you can get a aftermarket Bergara barrel. Slufoot on Doug's board does the conversions using a Savage breach plug. Bullberry also offers a awesome PacNor 45 barrel for the Encore but its not cheap.

You are correct about the smokeless fps gains. I can hit well over 2650fps in my PacNor 45 1-22 twist without breaking a sweat.