Mountaineer or Triumph?
 

I've been hunting all my life, but have zero experience with ML. Got invited to KS for early whitetail ML hunt in Sept so I need to start practicing. I want to be confident up to 200 yds and from what I've read, both of these are capable.

Been doing a lot of reading and researching. Don't believe I've heard much negative at all about the Triumph. They are popular and promoted by the TV guys, but I like to be a little different. I don't really want the same thing most everyone else has.

I'm want the mountaineer. From what I've read they are great guns and from pics I've seen they are beautiful guns. But, on the other hand I've read several posts about difficulty cleaning and inserting primer. I've read about having to tape the breach plug.

Why put up with that? Is the mountaineer worth the extra trouble? Or, I have just read a few uncommon complaints and it's really no more difficult to use than the T/C?

Can you offer a newbie some advice?

Mountaineer would be first choice but the Triump is right there with it. Either one would be fine for what you want.

Don't let tapping the breech plug scare you off. It's just a trick to make clean up easier. I do this on all of my MZ's.

Both are fine guns. You can't go wrong with either.

If you want to talk about the KS MZ season, shoot me a PM. I've been hunting here the past 12 years.

I have both guns and they are both very good guns... I hunt with the Knight

If you are shooting BH you do not need to tape/grease either Breech Plug... If you are shooting the other subs you will save yourself some headaches taping or greasing.

For me it really comes down to - do you prefer a break open or a bolt gun. I prefer the bolt gun so I use the bolt gun.

Cleaning for myself it is really a toss up. The breech is very clean on a Mountaineer so there is not much clean up there. The break-open Triumph is thought to be the easier to clean through the breech.

One thing that really carries some weight with me the Mountaineer has a much better trigger system. It comes with a 3 screw fully adjustable trigger. Removing 1 screw will aloow you to remove the trigger assembly if you ever needed to. The Triumph trigger - not so much.

But the Triumph is lighter - that is for sure. It comes with a coating on the barrel for color or a normal blued barrel - but know option for stainless.

Not that it really matters, the Mountaineer or DISC are both rated for 150 grains of any BP or BP sub. The Triumph is rated for 150 grains of BP-Pyro- or normal pellets but 120 grains for T7 or BH.

The best advice I could give is to find a friend or friends that have the guns and try them.

If you were here you would find several Knights and one Triumph...

Good luck in your search...

Both of those are very nice and will certainly do the job. Do you think you will m/l hunt alot or a little after that trip? Reason I ask...there are alot of m/l that will do the job out to 200yds with no problem, that are relatively inexpensive if it will be an every now and then thing.

I personally love Knights. In addition to the mountaineer, you could look at a bighorn, mk-85 (great older gun), and many others. They even have the wolverines back in stock at Knight for a limited time and they are quite inexpensive.

CVA also makes some nice guns, and they aren't too hard on the wallet either.

Heck, a used gun (in great shape) is a very good option too.

I like the Knight because it can be tore down and inpected and cleaned very easy. A lot of others just pull the breech plug an do a fast wipe down of the plug and wipe out the barrel with a patch or two.To me that is not cleaning a gun , If one were just shooting at a bench it would probability be ok , But how about when hunting in dirt , dust , mud and rain , I believe the knight was the others bet in the cleaning area , It can be COMPLETLY cleaned at camp instead of being seen back to the factory or gunsmith to remove contamination from the trigger area .

triump. mountaineer doesnt shoot any better

I'm pleasantly surprised...thought the T/C would get more support.

The ML probably won't get used a whole lot but I like guns and prefer collecting quality firearms. The laminated stocks on the mountaineer really caught my eye. My last rifle purchase was a win model 70, beautiful wood.

I'm feeling more comfortable with my first impression of the Knight.

What bullet/load combo would be best suited for one of those big bodied KS bucks?

One bullet that I use that has really been accurate for me is the Lehigh/Bloodline .458-275 gr. DOA. To me it is a great all-around bullet and has great 'terminal ballstics'

This is a post I put up sometime back shooting my Mountaineer in the Rock Pit..

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...untaineer.html

Hey there Geaux Tigers. Welcome to the Black Powder forum. Your name says "Loosianna Boy". You from the Pelican State?

"The ML probably won't get used a whole lot " With that being said I would go with the Triumph. The money saved could buy a nice scope to finish off the package. Also you might want to look at CVA's. Ron and others on here are putting up some nice 200yd groups.

I am...Shreveport!

[QUOTE=sabotloader;3915727]One bullet that I use that has really been accurate for me is the Lehigh/Bloodline .458-275 gr. DOA. To me it is a great all-around bullet and has great 'terminal ballstics'

This is a post I put up sometime back shooting my Mountaineer in the Rock Pit..QUOTE]

Nice post and great shooting. Looking at the ballistics info on Knight's website for this bullet, the energy at 200 yds using 120 grains of Triple 7 pellets, is about 740 ft/lbs. Is there a difference with the powder you used?

According to the same chart, using 120 grains of Blackhorn it is a little over 1,000 ft/lbs. Have you tried BH with this bullet?

[quote=Geaux Tigers;3915788]The only difference is that I was using T7 loose powder. I have never found pellets to be as consistent as loose powder. If you were to weigh the individual pellets in a box I think you would understand.

I have used BH but because of the price per shot, I do not see enough advantage to make the switch. And do not get me wrong BH is a great powder.

This is a copy of a velocity comparison test I did between the two powders. I am shooting close to 3000 feet in elvation also so that will effect velocity somewhat. Ignore the line that says the sabot was a Blue 4050 sabot that is an error from the previous test using a 45 cal rifle. I will throw in the same typ of chart that I did for a 45 cal gun also. It is actually more complete than is the 50 Chart






This ballistic sheet was computed from velocities atained with 120 grains of T7-2f

My choice would be the Triumph, with it's lighter weight,shorter length,easy BP removal and ease of cleaning.not to mention there excellent accuracy straight out of the box.

The Triumph is the best T/C makes. The Mountaineer is the best Knight makes. The Knight Mountaineer is made at alot tighter tolerances then the Triumph. They are both very good, but the Mountaineer is better. You wont go wrong with either one.

I have both the triumph and the mountaineer. Both are very nice . I would take the mountaineer. Of the individuals who have both it seems the Mountaineer comes in first. People who only have a Triumph have no basis of comparison, they can only recommend the triumph. Then there are the others who have neither and still recommend one . That's interesting. I guess the choice would be made based on which company the person dislikes the most or on comments made by others but not based on experience.

My friend my comments were based on facts,the triumph is indeed lighter,easier to remove the BP and clean,it is also shorter in length, i do not need to hold a mountaineer in my hands to know these things. break action rifles are vastly more popular for many reasons,which is why i own a triumph and not a Mountaineer.and for the record i do not dislike knight rifles i own one:s4:

I wasn't responding to your post , just making a general observation , I have read a lot of recommendations lately while looking at guns and that was one prevailing thing I noticed so I mentioned it in this thread. Wasn't directed at any one persons post

10-4:biggrin:since were on the subject,the fact knight didn't offer camo synthetic stocks and blue barrels is another factor that would keep me and others from buying one.laminated stocks are nice to look at,but i prefer synthetic as many others do.

That have to agree with you. I wanted a 52 mountaineer but could not get one with a camo synthetic stock so I bought a nib 52 disc in camo from someone .

I own a Triumph and love it. I'm also eyeing a Mountaineer for the future!

The Triumph is light and handles well in heavy cover and for tree stand hunting, its great. Although guys shoot heavy charges out of their Triumphs, I find it to light, with to much muzzle jump. If I were hunt more open territory, where shots would 200 yard+, I would want the Mountaineer. Just me.

Besides isn't the Mountaineer rated for 150gr of BH209?

I have had a Triumph and they are a good rifle, but I'm just not a fan of the break action. I like the bolt and a little heavier rifle for stability. I also like the stainless on the barrel and the action. I prefer a synthetic but love the looks of laminated stocks. I just think that the Knight is a better all around gun. To me, it handles like no other. Either way, you need to get your hands on each and make the decision on it. I do think you will see the difference in workmanship very quickly.

You guys have been a tremendous help. Even with all the reading I've done, I've learned more on this thread. I believe I will go with the mountaineer.

That being said, any recommendation on the best source to buy one? I seem to remember reading they can be had for less than listed on Knight's website from other places.

I own the Mountaineer. It is easy for me to install a primer. I do it by using my trigger finger, and hold the primer against the bolt. It is easy for me to remove the primer; i just shake, and they fall into my hand. It is easy to clean. The bolt nor the trigger area ever never get fouling. I have only used W209 primer. The trigger is excellent,.................er perhaps better than excellent. I have no idea what you meant, when you asked 'is it worth the extra trouble?' Myself, i am ignorant of 'extra trouble'. The rifle is heavy and long. It is about a pound heavier than the weight given on the web site. The weight in the 2012 catalog is about right. Being an old retired carpenter, i am quite partial to wood, and the stock is a thing of beauty to my eyes and hands. The wood stock feels good on my face and is a very high comb. It recoils straight back though, and doesn't hurt my face. I have carried it about 2 mile whilst hiking, and it wasn't too bad to pack in the timber for that distance. A 5 mile hike might make it seem too too heavy. I really really enjoy shooting this rifle, cleaning it, and putting it to bed.

I own the Triumph. It carries well; shoots well. Trigger is good with zero creep. It has a very high comb, and hurts my face when i shoot it. I despise the breech plug. I plan to never own another.

These rifles are about equally accurate. It is possible i may own another Mountaineer one day, if it is available in a fast twist 45 caliber. It is very unlikely, i will ever own another Triumph.

The rifle i have taken with me just about every where i go during hunting season, is the Omega X7.

Thank you Ron!

You addressed most all of my original concerns! I guess the "extra trouble" was a result of a few posts I read. For example, the "Josh" thread and another of pink vs white teflon tape. I also I saw a picture of a leather strap a guy made just for inserting the primer as it was rather difficult with a scope mounted on the rifle. Your comments are just what I was hoping to hear as I really didnt' want to buy a T/C!

I made that little leather capper device for the Mountaineer. I find it useful when hunting in really cold weather and if I might have a glove on. It just makes it a bit easier in the rotten weather or when in a real hurry. With the leather strap it is also very easy to find a 209 in your pocket. I never really use the capper while at the range and the only time I used it hunting this year was to take it out of my pocket and pull a 209 out of the leather with my fingers and insert it in the bolt face.