My nephew called me this evening and asked if I would help him clean a muzzleloading rifle. I asked the usual questions, "What cal. is it?, Is it still loaded?, How long since it's been fired?, etc." Well, he brought it to me and I looked it over (a T/C Renegade Flint) and it was OBVIOUS that the gun had been fired and not cleaned as the bore and lock were covered with BP residue and starting to show signs of rust. I asked again, "Is it loaded?" he said "I didn't load it because I haven't shot it". I pulled the ramrod which was one of those all steel T/C rugged rods and dropped it down the bore...it went "tink". I dropped it again and "tink" (not a dull "tunk") which led me to believe the rod was hitting the breech and not a lead ball or bullet. I said "lets get a pan of hot soapy water and get it flushed out". I removed the lock then the barrel and proceeded to attempt to flush the bore but something didn't feel right. I couldn't pull any water into the bore and it appeared as though black powder was seeping into the water from the touchhole (the liner was frozen in place and I was only able to remove it after it had soaked a bit). I said... "This d@mn thing has a load in it!!" I screwed a puller onto my range rod and sure enough, it screwed right into a bullet which I might add I COULD NOT BUDGE! After numerous attempts including putting the barrel in a padded vise and trying to pull it, I was getting nowhere. I dried the barrel and poured in some KROIL, let it sit awhile and still no dice! Finally I heated up a pan of boiling hot water and let the barrel sit in it for 20 min. or so. I then screwed the puller back into the bullet and could feel it move ever so slightly back and forth until it finally loosened and I was able to pull it out. You guessed it! Out came a @#%$ Powerbelt bullet! I then proceeded to let the boy flush and clean repeatedly with warm soapy water followed by just warm water. We then ran dry patches then some Break Free lubed patches followed by alcohol patches and more dry patches and finished it off with some Ballistol. It really needed some JB paste after it's first drying but it was getting late and the boy had school the next day. My nephew told me that his neighbor (who is near 80 yrs. old) had shot a deer with this gun several weeks ago and called my nephew to ask if the boy would help him get it out of the woods. After he got the deer to the man's house, the older gent said, "Here, I got a deer with it now you take it and use it." Well, my nephew is not ignorant to the proper method of loading and shooting a Flintlock as he has shot them in 4H and YHEC shoots so he agreed to take it. The Ol' fella gave the boy the necessary things he needed and sent him on his way. My nephew never got out with the gun and only wanted to repay his neighbor for letting him use it by bringing it back clean. I am SO thankful that the kid never tried to spark the lock out of curiosity as that could have been disasterous!! I told him that if he got the urge to try hunting with a Flintlock next season to come see me. I would NEVER give someone a loaded gun to use! Sorry for the rant....BPS

daaang that could have been nasty had he done as you said and dropped the cock to see the sparks.

Man BPS, that was a disaster waiting to happen. Someone might have loaded a second charge and bullet and been in for a real surprise. I understand why the "tink" fooled you. but a check of how far the rod went down the bore would have clued you in right away.

Glad all is well. Good job BPSmoke.

Dang, that could have been a bad thing, but anytime someone hands me a gun they usually say be careful it's loaded but the safety's on, or I always ask myself, is it loaded. Always assume any gun is loaded.
I had a similar thing happen this past fall, a friend of the family bought a TC Black Diamond 3 years ago. I showed him everything I could about MLing and told him to be sure he cleaned it after every shooting session.
Long story short, he shot the MLer, did'nt clean it and loaded it. He hunted that season and never got a shot...he left the same charge in it and never fired it and Forgot it was loaded! STUPID!!!!! He moved to NYC and left the MLer with his friend, again STUPID!!! He was in NYC for 2 years and moved back and decided he was going to go hunting this past fall and knew I knew a-lot about MLing so he came over. He told me he could'nt get the breech plug out. I asked if it was loaded and he said he did'nt know.
The first thing I did was pull the ram rod and said, remember when I put this mark on here for you that showed when the MLer was empty, the mark on the ram rod is above the end of the muzzle, it's Loaded. Also it was'nt cleaned and it's been over 2 going on 3 years since it was.
I looked over the MLer and told him this is JUNK, I poured water down the barrel and let it soak for a hour or so while I went over everything I told him befor about MLing, and really laid into him about leaving it loaded and then leaving it loaded at a friends house and how Bad this could have been, then stressed that Im sure the barrel was rusted and junk and that I would'nt want to use it.
After the soaking I asked where's the BR Wrench?? he said I dont know...Great, no BP wrench. I found a 11mm socket that fit and could'nt get the BP out. I poured oil down the barrel and let it sit over night. Finally with it in a vice I got the BP out and pushed out the load. He came back over the next day for the cleaning.
After hours of me telling him this is the worst barrel I have ever saw and it's no good and all the strokes with a brass brush followed by more cleaning I got the barrel looking good. I could'nt believe it. There was a few minor pits but nothing that looked to bad, we went out to the yard and tried it out.
The dang thing shot good! I was Amazed! I recleaned it and stressed all I told him befor about MLing and especially about leaving a charge in it and about cleaning it and where the ram rod had the mark on the barrel that showed if it had a charge in it, I never heard from him throughout hunting season untill after it was over. I asked him how he did, no deer or shots. I asked him if he cleaned it, No he said but I did fire it off. I said at least you did that. Why did'nt you clean it??? I did'nt have a socket to remove the BP......I told him he was on his own now and to get a socket and clean it, it it was junk then it was his own fault. Some people just never learn.
(BP)

Semi, you're absolutely right. I should have checked the length of the rod in the barrel first and then checked it on the outside to determine if loaded or not. That "all steel" rod was left full length (28" and not the 26" that a Renegade has) so that may have helped decieve me along with the metallic "tink" sound it made from that copper Powerbelt bullet. My nephew is a very responsible young man and has shot in many youth events and would NEVER load a firearm and hand it over to someone without stating the fact that it was loaded so that wasn't my concern. My failure was not checking all the angles. Apparently the Ol' fella loaded the gun after shooting the deer and HE neglected to tell my nephew that it was loaded when he let him take it. I pulled the lock and barrel and then set the breech end of the barrel in the hot soapy water (which rendered the load "inert") and discovered that I could not pull in any water. I have never personally (knock on wood) had to pull a bullet or ball from any of my guns in 38 yrs. of shooting BP firearms so it was a lesson learned for me!...BPS

Well BPS, being the optimist that I am, now you learned a valuable lesson. And you also know how to get a stuck PB out of a bore. Every day we learn a valuable lesson. And one I learned long ago is that there are a lot of boneheads in this world. I make a living by dealing with a lot of people and by taking nothing for granted. Trust but verify.

Thank you all for your support and timely replies! It was kind of humbling for me to even post this, but I was wound tighter than a clock spring and had to let it out. I have been shooting and ENJOYING muzzleloading firearms from the time I was in High school and thought I had seen it all. This was the one incident that knocked me back a few steps and made me think just how easy accidents can happen. I will keep my guard up higher next time....BPS

yeah i was fittin to ask, "didnt this story just get published?"
thats why the rule is...presume the gun is always loaded.
tell "your nephew" he is a lucky guy.