Two members can't seem to let go of a disagreement and keep cluttering up the forum with a running feud that causes other members to complain. I've fielded some of these complaints and have tried to keep the peace and hopefully work out a compromise--if nothing else, agree to disagree and leave each other alone. PMs are being sent to the 2 affected members. Publicly, I can say that both of you are looking at a very long time out if this continues and being put on Santa's naughty list. I hope both of you drop the feud and enjoy the forum(s). At this point, it's your choice and your consequences.

CalHunter
Moderator

Good point oldsmellhound - One needs to know the limitations of their equipment as that is part of being an ethical hunter. It gives one the confidence to take that shot - any shot - you know your limits and capabilities of the weapon you have practiced with. There are many who post here I learn alot from and the author is one of them.......

Dave......JW

I'll 2nd that from personal experience in the Marine Corps also. I was a PMI at Dam Neck Rifle Range in Virginia and it was quite a sight.

When conditions are right, bullets are easy to see in flight. The sun has to be right, and one has to stand in the right spot. At the range, if one sees a bullet once, then one can stand in the same spot and see bullet after bullet after bullet, until things change like a cloud comes by or the sun moves on etc.. Seen bullets can be super fast magnum bullets, or hand gun bullets or rimfire. Writing this made me realize, i haven't seen a bullet for quite a long long time.

I read one time in a magazine that one doesn't really see the bullet, rather, what one sees is the 'vapor trail'. Myself, i wouldn't know.

I personally have never been in the right spot myself. But then again, I have rarely watched someone else shoot. I am usually behind the gun. I might agree you might see a " vapor trail" but, I will find it very hard to belive the eye can catch a bullet travelling at 1700 fps. At 200 yds. So I will stick with I doubt he is seeing the bullet.

BP, made the statement in his first post as if he see's it reguarly.

I've seen the same thing a couple times with 22's at the range and with some pistols. It was like some kind of glint that only lasted a fraction of a second.

Now if you happen to reload a shotgun shell and only use the primer or a tiny bit of powder (oops), I can tell you from personal experience that you can see the shot and wad both wandering down range at such a very leisurely rate that any self respecting game bird would fall down laughing their head silly over. :s3:

Technically it is the vapor trail that one see's and not the bullet.conditions do indeed need to be just right. i have seen a bullets vapor trail several times,when watching my son shoot.

Jay,

...Deleted by CalHunter...

The mods are on it, leave it be. You trying to get banned again?

Apparently he was--It worked.

Maybe a mod can explain who i'm having a feud with? The PM didn't say.

I don't feel like i'm having a feud with anyone on this forum. I find it hard to believe that anyone is bothered enough to complain. Even after we say we're just fooling around.

I seem to be too much for some sensitive types here. I'm not about to change, and act like someone who's afraid to talk to me instead of a mod.

I'll just go post on forums with guys who don't complain.

I caught a 270 powerbelt on camera that you could see. It was pretty fun to see that. I actually saw it first through my scope and was like.. what the heck was that?! miracle it was caught on the camera.

Muley, dont even bother with it anymore. I honestly think some group of guys get together to PO others and try to get them banned LOL.

It wouldn't surprise me Jon.

I actually like Boone. At least he's honest, and speaks his mind. I can easily get along with guys like that.

I have no use for back stabbers.

Thank's MD and to the others who have commented on seeing the path of the bullet to the target. I only stated in my original comment on this that I saw it happen only 2 times, not all the time.
And It was the bullet and not a vapor trail, I actually saw the bullet in flight and smack the deer dead center in the lungs, I could'nt believe it myself. I can also see how some see the vapor trail also of the bullet, but for sure I saw the bullet and not the vapor trail.
Also I did see this through my scope, Im sure that made somewhat of a difference. But at the target range It's just my eyes, and if you stand in the right spot you can see the bullet in flight, mabey not everytime but it does happen.
(BP)

I can only dream of seeing a bullet in flight with my vision.

deleted : no longer want to be on the forum

A 100yd shot with open sights is a good shot. It's unethical if someone isn't good at it. Only the shooter knows that.

I agree, practice makes perfect, and knowing your equiptment is everything, but there still has be limitations to all of this. For instance I shoot a-lot of 3-D targets with my Bow, I regularry practice out to 70yds because most of the longest 3-D targets are 50+-yds, so practicing at 70yds makes them 50yd shots easy.
Now I know this is with my Bow but I can 6 out of 10 times out the arrow in the 10 ring at 70yds, the rest are solid 10's. I know the yardage so all I have to do is aim and make the shot. I would never consider a shot at 70yds with my bow even if I ranged it and knew it was 70, too much can happen, and Im even sure that if I held high enough my bow could take a deer out at 150yds, but I'd never try that one either.
Now back to 300, I'd take this shot any day of the week with a rifle, it would be a good shot but no where near a unheard of shot, just because the rifle can shoot 2,000yds and more, does'nt mean Im going to take a shot at 2000yds just because it can shoot that far, I'd stick to a 500-600yd shot max. With a MLer it's not a rifle and a 300yd shot would be pushing it, even though you can hit the bull on the target at 300 still does,nt mean that just because you can do it, it's good to try the shot.
Just because you car has a speedometer that says it'll do 140 or faster, does'nt mean going that fast is a good thing to do.
I have nothing wrong with shots taken out to 200yds with a MLer, and even though you can punch the bull at 300yds with a MLer, remember it's just paper and not a real animal.
These comments are ment for no one, the express how I feel about my equiptment and what it's capable of reguardless of how good I can shoot or how far my equiptment shoots.
If it was me I'd put more time into figuring out how to get closer to the game than trying to accomplish shooting at it further. Now if there were no trees or brush or anything for the deer to hide behind or in, and it was nothing but wide open fields where we had to belly crawl to get within 300yds of a deer without it seeing us and running off, then yes I'd have to take 300yd shots, that's saying I could'nt use a rifle to do it and only my MLer.
(BP)

deleted : no longer want to be on the forum

deleted : no longer want to be on the forum

I dont think you read my post right....I said I shoot a-lot of (3-D Targets) at 50yds and further, not on REAL Deer. 3-D Targets are made of foam and we shoot them in competition in the IBO (International Bowhunting Organization)
Believe Me I can shoot a Bow and My Max Yardage is 30yds with a Bow when hunting real live deer, even though I can 10 ring 3-D targets consistantly at 50yds+++
I placed 11th in the Atlantic City Indoor World Championships and 4th in the Canadian World Championships.
Please re-read my original Post.
(BP)

deleted : no longer want to be on the forum

If you can consistantly hit a 3"+- spot, mabey a tad bigger on a target all the time then I say go for it. As long as the MLer has enough energy and the deer is standing still broadside. You and only you know what your capable of.
But remember what you new Sig Say's (Hunt hard and Kill Clean)
Im also courious as to how many other Members on here have taken deer out to 300yds with there MLers, anyone?
(BP)

The majority of hunters can't make any of those shots in the field. What you can do on a bench at a range, almost doesn't count.

Our local range has targets out to 500 yds. We have full size steel game targets. I can't count the times guys have shot at the full size elk target at 500 yds. Some took 5 shots before they could even hit it anywhere. Let alone consistently hit the kill zone. If it's windy. It's comical.

Just because someone has a scope. Doesn't mean they can hold it on the kill zone at 500yds in the field. The slightest little twitch moves the crosshair off the animal. Let alone the kill zone.

I have a pat answer when someone mentions a long shot they took. Which I know the yardage was probably half of what they claim. It goes like this.

Joe.....Hey Pete! I shot an elk at 400 yds yesterday.

Me...Don't feel bad Joe. You'll get closer next time.

deleted : no longer want to be on the forum

i normally strap my lead sled to my back while hunting. It never hurts to have a good rest just in case you need it.

I simply made a statement about those distances for the average hunter. It wasn't pointed at anybody on this forum.

deleted : no longer want to be on the forum

deleted : no longer want to be on the forum

Your Funny Muley and you also speak the truth (I like you, There's No Lying in You) Quote from Omar Suarez in Scarface.
Anyhoo the one's that dont lesten to experience are the ones that have to learn from Murphy:sad:
(BP)

I guess I did sort of answer it. I think few can make those shots. If someone could in hunting conditions, and in all kinds of weather. Go ahead. You're a TV star.

Tip..You don't have to take a shot, because it's all you have at the moment. ;)

If you're going to take sniper shots. Make sure you're a sniper.

yeah i saw that too. I'd P' me off carrying it through the mountains and brush. Mainly for prarie dog hunting and such. Much to bulky.

deleted : no longer want to be on the forum

I've always used a shooting sling. It really does help steady the gun if used from a knee, or sitting position.

It's not a great style of sling to carry the gun, but more than makes up for it in shooting.

No sticks, or bi-pods. Too much trouble and clunky to setup fast.

Travel light. Hunt like an Indian. :D

I also think sticks are to hard to set up fast, you make too much movement, the deer around here would spot you in a second.
I personally take shots only from a solid rest, a tree, off my knees ect. I do take off hand shots out to say 75yds, but anything further I want a solid rest so I know Im going to hit where Im aiming.
Im not bragging but the last 50 deer or more that I have taken have been solid lung or heart shots, the others have been in places that I was aiming for and not by accident.
Now if I lived out West where a-lot of you Hunt Muleys and have a-lot of Open Ground Im sure My Hunting Methods would change to fit the circumstances.
(BP)

Any of you guys ever use one of those Claw slings with the shooting sticks built in? The idea seems good, but wonder about functionality of them.

deleted : no longer want to be on the forum

Mountain Devil uses one. He seems to like it.

LOL.
I've never seen one in person, but like I said...the idea sounds good. The regular claw slings are pretty nice, imo.

I've never hunted where I felt the need for shooting sticks, but if I hunted an area like some of you guys..I would use sticks for sure. I know there have been a few times where I would have loved to have some, but those are few and far between.

As others have mentioned....I rarely shoot without a rest anymore either. BP said he'll go offhand to 75, my offhand max is about 40 anymore - and I'll always choose a rest over offhand if one is remotely possible.