The Deer are getting Too Smart
 

Im gonna try and make this short, but it may be tough.....
First off I've been Hunting Whitetail Deer for over 35 Years, back just say 10 years ago I could go out and be in My Stand overlooking a Corn or Soybean Field and at 3:30 in the afternoon the Field would be filled with Deer, mabey not the Big Bucks but there were Bicks there. I could take a Big Fat Doe or a Decent Buck any time I wanted to, then things started to change over the last 10 Years.
I Call it the SMART GENE, it seems as if the Deer that live to see tomorrow pass on this Smart Gene to there Young and as the Years go by the Deer just keep getting Smarter and Smarter. You start to see them Avoiding the Stands that have been there for Years and thy start comming out later and later in the Afternoon, and are going in Earlier and Earlier in the Morning.
Heck I could be in My Stand in the Morning a half hour befor Sunrise and catch them Deer comming in to Bed, Now there in Bed Hours befor daylight, and in the Evening they dont come out untill after Legal Shooting time. Or better yet they found where they Cant be Hunted and are there insted of being in there Traditional Bedding Grounds or the Property you Hunt.
I even tried My SECRET to Hunt from 11am untill 1 Pm to catch them when they Least Expect you to be there, this used to work Great and I'd Fool them, No More, now they stay Bedded ALL DAY and dnt come out untill Dark, and the Big Bucks go Total Nocturnal from the Beginning of Bow Season. I see there Tracks in the Corn Fields from the night befor but they Never Show in the Light, same as the Does and even the Fawns are getting to be the same way.
I've been talking to some of the Best Deer Killing Machines I know and they say the same things, it's getting so hard to take a Deer or even see one that I cant believe it.
I Work all Year Long to Hunt and have the time off in the Fall to Hunt, I have the Entire Hunting Season Off, I Hunt Every Day and Hunt All Day most times. Im in Deer Infested Areas, there GONE and Hiding.
Do any of You have the Same Experiences? Im a Dedicated True Born Deer Hunting Machine, and for Me and many like Me to have the same thing happening really blows. And Im not saying we over Hunt our spots either, we have many Private Big Acreage Land to Hunt. It seems as if you Hunt there once, take a Deer or Two then they know your there and there Gone.
I Feel Fortunate to have the Deer I have taken this Season as Many Good Hunters I know did'nt even see a Deer, there's many out there but there just Hiding and Good.
(BP)

You may be right Breechplug. A few years ago I would be able to sit in any one of my three boxes and expect to see a few deer on the plot, morning or late evening. Last year that hardly happened. Even worse this year. Could it be that deer are actually smarter than the average congressman? At least the deer seem to have the ability to learn from experience.

They aren't too smart yet. I had a doe in my sights today, but couldn't pull the trigger.

I have a real hard time killing a doe. It was a fun hunt anyway.

I love the early part of the season, in Oct. the days are longer and the deer are moving during shooting hours. It seems to me as the year grows older and the deer keep moving at the same time but the days are so much shorter I am home eating supper at the time I was seeing them in Oct then comes daylight savings time to really screw things up. Our bow season will open in Sept. next year and muzzle loader in Oct. I think they are actually going to do something right!

If you are there Every day ALL day you are educating the deer and it doesn't matter how big of an area you have. And if your not the one actually educating the deer then someone is from somewhere, there has to be pressure.

:happy0157: Muley is a girley-man! Muley is a girley-man! :kiss: :s2::s2:

I believe in non-discrimination and have a real hard time passing on a nice fat doe. ;)

Still lots of elk meat to finish. I just wanted to be out hunting. I enjoyed the stalk. No need to kill Bambi to have fun. :p

I never ever pass on a buck.

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What I think happens is they start reacting to hunting pressure. For instance, when I was young, no one or at least few bow hunted. Rifle season was nine days long and hunters flooded the woods. All the natural patterns deer follow was interrupted and deer were seen all over the place. After the rifle season there was no muzzleloader season.

Present day, bow season starts in September and hunters flood the woods with bow and arrow waiting for a chance to stick a deer. But they also teach the deer that strangers are in the woods. Sights, smells, bait piles, all things they are not used to tell the animals that additional caution needs to be taken. Then would come the early youth deer season. And gun fire much earlier then usual erupts through the woods. The animals take note. Then we have scouting with trail cameras, and more bow hunters, and finally rifle season hits and the woods are flooded with deer hunters stomping all over the place.

But the deer are expecting this from all the sign in the woods. And they begin to go nocturnal. Hunters are confused because the deer are not following patterns. So they make drives. Deer then not only go more nocturnal, but they go deeper into the area where man will not travel. Hunters are upset because the deer are not wandering the normal trails during the day time.

After rifle season, muzzleloader season starts, and bow season still is on. Some deer start to relax but I think all the activity from early fall until winter, has these animals on such high alert, that many go nocturnal until deep winter, when temps force them to come out in the day for food.

Mature muley bucks are much more of a challenge. The hunt is always the bottom line for me. If the hunt was too easy. I get no pleasure in the kill.

I live by my rules. Not yours. Antlers have nothing to do with it.



btw Teddy Roosevelt wouldn't shoot a doe either. I'm a fan of his.

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No I Doubt it, we have 200, 300 and 600 Acre Hunting Areas that are Posted up Tighter than My Wifes....well there Posted and Everyone Knows to Not even try and Tresspass, I wont get into that one:hit:
For Instance, We did'nt Hunt a 200 Acre Piece for most of the Hunting Season, We Hunted it Opening Day and My Wife took a Nice 9pt, then Hunted elsewhere for the next 20 Days. Then the Last Day of the Hunting Season Me and My Buddy who Owns the Land went there, I saw a Bunch of Deer and so did He, I took a 5pt with a few minutes left in our Regular Rifle Season, we Hunted there the next day and saw just a few Deer. I Hunted there Today, and there was still Snow on the Gorund. I Hunted from Sun Up untill Dark in one of the Best Deer Killing Spots on the Property. A Day befor I Killed My Buck the place was Filled with Deer and Fresh Deer Tracks. Today when I left and walked out (about a Mile) I did'nt cut one Fresh Deer Track in the Snow, the Deer were Gone. Two days befor that the place was Filled with Deer, just Me and My Buddy being there gave the Deer all they needed to know that this place was'nt Safe any longer and were'nt there. they knew....they knew.....
Another Example, Last Night Me and My buddy Spotted One of His Farms, we saw over 30 Does and 7 Different Bucks, and 2 BIG BUCKS. He Hunted there this Morning and NEVER SAW A DEER. We used to see a-lot of Deer there, and could take our Pick...they Know when Not to be there...
(BP)

I agree that hunting pressure changes their movements. And also, unlike 10 years ago, at least here in PA, the numbers are down drastically from the PGC allocating far too many anterless tags with the excuse of 'reducing the herd to habitat capacity'.

About time you said something funny.

I do agree with that to a degree, at keast in PA because I used to Hunt there on the First Monday after Thanksgiving, Opening Day. I'd see HERDS of Does go by, with the ocassional Buck mixed in. Then after they started to issue Doe Tags for the Beginning of Opening Day insted of the Last Two Days of Hunting Season, the Deer Herd went Way Down. I Quit Hunting PA, the PA Hunters started to come to NY just to see Deer.
We Spotlighted a Corn Field the other night that is Hunted by ONLY US, we saw 72 Deer in the Field with 13 different Bucks. We Hunted the Woods and Corn Field the next Morning and only saw 3 Fawns feeding in it and in the Woods bordering it. The Deer Wer'nt there, we used to be able to Pass on Many Deer, now were Lucky to see a Fawn.......there Smart and Gone.
(BP)

If you're seeing that many, they gotta be somewhere breech...the key is figuring out where, and if/how you can put yourself in position to capitalize. Later in the season in most places it seems to get like you are stating.

I agree 100%, they get smarter each year. Heck the deer in my area walk around looking up in the trees. They didn't used to do that, its genetic conditioning I guess. Maybe your deer have been conditioned to the spotlight...they know to stay away from that area tomorrow or it could be trouble. LOL. Good luck, I'm sure you'll find em.

200, 300, and 600 acre tracts of land are not that big...especially if it butts up against land that other people hunt. You don't know what they might be doing.

I disagree. My hunting area suffers from lack of pressure. When I started hunting, gun season was a war zone. I am within ear shot of Fort Knox, and the deer rifle fire masked the tank and artillery. Deer were running for cover opening weekend.

Over the last 10 years, a couple of mini-farm developments have come in, and those neighborhoods have resorted to strictly bow hunting on those tracts. Come gun season, 10 shots all day is typical. With nobody else hunting, you find deer bedding down in fence rows or woodlots along those minifarm tracts, especially so with the mild weather we have had, 3 of the last four years.

Deer do wise up as season progresses. One of our properties has about 50 acres of ravines, sumac, wild plum, greenbriars, oak brush and downed trees from a fire that came roaring through the place seven years ago. i never go there because it's impossible to get through the place without a machete.

When the guns start to crack the deer from about 2,000 acres of the neighbors property head into that thicket and come out only at night.

I definitely agree with BreechPlug on the changes. So much so that I am suspending my hunting for next year.

5 years ago I could go to any of my 7 places to hunt and see deer. I would bump them on the way in and out. It was hard to enter the woods because every path had a deer a long the way. It got to the point that I would wait for light, wait for the field to clear (about half hour after sunrise, then sneak to my stands.

On opening gun day, the question was not if you would harvest a deer or not, it was what do you want? Buck, Doe, yearling, old lady? I counted 70 deer that past my stand in 2007.

This year?

I went 35 trips to many different hunting spots and seen nothing. Then I got to see my fist Doe who came within 40 yards of my stand looking up in the trees as she walked.

I got to shoot at one buck with my bow but did not harvest.

That's it. Two deer.

The deer are so pressured here in Northeast Ohio its ridiculous. Because of the economy, everyone is hunting. I never seen other bow hunters before the rut. Now there are trucks everywhere on opening day.

Youth gun season is extremely popular and guns go a blazing early. Its hard to tell the difference between adult and youth gun season anymore.

Then comes regular gun. This year there are tons of Amish putting on massive drives. I seen over 100 in a single field alone. They were slinging lead like it was free shot.

I was waiting on that corner till end of season but the Drivers drove them out.

This Saturday is are extended gun season and I am taking my son who wants to go. Will see if we see something.

Muzzleloader comes in January 7, 2012. I look forward to that because most hunters can't take the cold or the snow. The deer have to feed and I have some prime cut corn fields to hunt the edge of.

But all-in-all, I could have bought a whole grass fed cow for what I invested in hunting this year...lol And even though I want deer hunting to be a challenge for my family and me, seeing no deer week after week in some awesome places gets old.

So, if the season continues as it has been I think I will voluntarily fish more and hunt less over the next few years.


D

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You may be on to something there MM. The older I get the more I realize just how dumb I am. You wouldn't believe how smart I was (so I thought) 30 years ago.

I also want to add that I went to using a climber most of this year so that deer didn't pattern my permanent spots. I would pick a different tree many acres away for each hunt. I never hunted the same woods more than twice a week.

So if it was 80 acres wood, I would hunt the west side once, then the east side the next. North, then South.

Mixing in different property's to let land rest as much as possible.

But I don't know why I did that. I ran into other hunters weekly (on private land).

And at night I would come out of some woods as the Coon hunters were coming in with there dogs.

Then one day I had the squirrel hunters coming by as I was sitting for hours on a great spot.

Then we can't forget that all our woods have turkey and we have a ton of turkey hunters now that pop guns off in April in the deep woods.

I guess it is amazing any animal gets rest anymore...lol

I agree, not sure if i would call it a smart gene but, the ones that have been with a group that had been fired on learn, when and where this is happening. Even the yearlings and they begin to pattern hunters, just as we pattern them. As they learn our hunting spots, stands scents, whatever they begin to avoid those area's at those times and that trains the young to do so.

Then this creates their new pattern on being in early and coming out late and avoiding certain spots at the daylight hours. Just keeps getting added to and passed down from year to year from doe to fawn. most will adhere to a pattern taught to them by their mother.

There used to be so much poaching in my area, that now a days, you will hardly ever see a deer standing in any field within sight of a road. If you get back to the corners or spots you can not see from a car, you have a good spot. I have yet to have deer pattern me in one of my stands in the middle of some acorns, that or they like the acorns more than their life.

That stand has produced 2 booners and 4 P&Y bucks. I do not shoot doe from this stand but man are they everywhere. I only hunt it when the wind is right and when i go, I am there from 1hour before to about an hour after dark. I try to make sure most have moved to the fields before coming out.

There plenty big enough, no matter what your neighbors are doing. Just like they pattern us and our habits, they know where the pressure is and not. They will move from the neighbors to your property, and as long as you do not pressure too hard. it will make them feel safe, again.

The places I hunt have heavy pressure from neighboring property and not so much on mine. I know where the deer are, and use the wind to my advantage in deciding where to hunt. I always see the doe and if you wait long enough, the bucks are always goin to be where the doe are, eventually.

I agree with you on this one Totally. I guess I did'nt explain Myself good in My Opening Statement. Oh the Deer are still around but some of Our Propertys Border the Village, and the Deer know it's Safe there so that's where they go during the Day, then when it's Dark they come to the Corn Fields and Feed all night, then say around 5am there back in the Village where it's Safe. The Deer used to hang on our Properties, they were'nt pressured much as we Hunt different Farms and Parcels throught the Season, but now it seems if you Take a Deer or two it's over and there out of there back to Places they cant be Hunted.
Sure we catch some here and there but they Learn Quick where it's Not Safe.
It'e even worse this Year as Our Weather has been Exceptionally Warm, Windy and Rainy, with NO SNOW wich is Unusuall. We usually have Feet of Snow and Temps from 0-20 Degreese. The Deer Had To Feed when it was like this and they were in the Corn and Soybean Fields and feeding in the Afternoon or even mid day. With the Warm Weather and No Snow the Deer have it made this Season, there's Plenty of Browse and Grasses to eat while there Hiding in them Secure Safe Places, no need to venture out for food.
True Hunters on other Properties that border our Land really pound the Deer Hard and the pressure form them is enough to send them to places where there safe.
The Deer Herd here has learned to go where they cant be Hunted no matter how Low the Pressure is or not. Like I said befor My Buddys and I Live to Hunt Deer, we consider ourselves Great Deer Hunters, but the Deer just Learn to Quick and Pass that on to there Young and so on. I dont Blame them, I would too. And Yes I Love the Hunt and dont expect it to be Easy, if it was it would'nt be any Fun. But when I get to a Corn Field in the Morning and see Hundreds of Fresh Tracks in the Field with My Flashlight, and Spotted 30-60 Deer in the Field the Night befor, then Hunt there all day from Sun up to Sun Down and dont see a single Deer that gets tough. And like I said these Places are Not Pressured that much at all, we play the Wind right and dont go into the Bedding Areas, then as Legal Hunting time ends and you can still see into the Fields the Deer start to come out. And we wont Drive the Deer because we dont shoot at Running Deer, plus if we drove them then they would'nt come out untill Midnight.
(BP)

BP..........you have a strange love affair with your cap key. :P

I know....I just like to make certain words stand out more, I figured it added more meaning to the word, it's Not Workin?:hit:
(BP)

Somewhat distracting.

It upsets the flow. I think of a word capped as the start of a new sentence.

At least he tries. If it was not for auto correct on my phone, beginning of a sentences would not be capped.

Your choice to look like a .................Oh wait........I can't call you names............the mod will hear about it.

I flunked grammer anyway so capping when it is supposed to be, is the least of my worries. Don't really care what other people thinks, never have.

If you really didn't care. You wouldn't be on forums.

So, no cigar for you.

Yep to BS, not care or make friends. With my record, do you really think otherwise?

If that's the case. Please stop sending me flowers. It's embarrassing.

I was told there were no stalking laws in CO. :s14:

Maybe they meant just on elk.

This year we had deer hang around our building site spring, summer, and fall. In particular there have been a doe and her two fawns (now pretty mature). As mad as I got at them when they raised cain with my garden I could not pull the trigger on them this fall. I guess they became almost like part of the family, sometimes going out to the shop in the morning I would walk within 20 yards of them, Once I could almost touch one of the fawns.
So, you can call me a girly man too I guess. There just didn't seem to be any sport in shooting them. We are going without venison this year. To me its no biggie.
Art

Strange response to the post you quoted.

Stalking laws? You need to explain?

LOVE IT!!!! Maybe that explains it!!!!

Here is my opinion

I have hunted many years also, I don't believe deer are smart, nor are they going to get smart, deer are creatures of habit, & these habits are controlled in part to weather, feeding areas, bedding areas, landscape change, & the rut. & last but not least Hunting pressure. All but the last can be an advantage to the hunter. remember, deer don't do much, they eat, sleep, and well you know the other///, Hunting pressure is your enemy, if you want to improve your odds try and hunt where others are not, even if it means across the road, I don't know if I would call it smart or not but deer become very alert when under pressure. if you hunt in areas where there is a high degree of pressure, the hunter has to get smart!! get out early, stay out late, Scents should become your friend. spend time in the woods, get to know their habits.
I do understand we all live in different parts of the country, I hunt some areas where I won't see another hunter (or very few) all season, Most of my hunting today has low to medium pressure area. I don't think deer are getting any smarter, I think sometimes people take the "Hunt" out of "hunting" JMOP Doc