I got into a heated argument with a older fella' at work today about T/C barrels with the shallow grooves and round ball accuracy. I know my Renegade barrels are about .006" vs my green mountain barrels that are .010" - .012". He was trying to tell me that he has had T/C Hawken and Renegades and none would shoot round balls because of the shallow groove and the 1:48 twist barrels. I told him about the accuracy I get out of my Renegade barrels and he was basically calling me a liar. We both walked away pretty p****d off. I feel I get great accuracy and that he is full of it. Now I will say my GM barrels with the 1:70 twist really do shoot great (probably better) and pretty much shoot any patch/ball combo vs my 1:48 barrels that are a little more picky but I always have found a patch/ball combo that shoots accurately (hunting accuracy). What kind of accuracy do you fellows get with you factory T/C 1:48 Hawken/Rengade type barrels?

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The 1-48 twist is the most misunderstood twist you find in muzzleloaders. On one hand you are both right. Yes there are better shooting roundball rifles then a T/C with 1-48 twist. No one can or should argue that. But I have numerous 1-48 twist T/C traditional rifles. All of them are good roundball shooters. Now that don't mean I want to compete with them at the range. And maybe I don't want to shoot 200 yards with it. But for the average hunter, who if you ask most of his shots are 80 yards or less... that 1-48 twist will put meat on the table almost every time.



Now understand, the rifle a .54 caliber New Englander is scoped. But the way it shoots roundball at 50 yards.. I dare anything to come in front of me with it.

When people speak of muzzleloaders now, they speak of rifles able to shoot 200 yards. When I started with muzzleloaders, we were tickled to shoot 100 yards with roundball. We hunted with roundball, but we hunted close quarters, and picked our shots.

With open sights I can normally shoot a 4 inch group with a 1-48 twist at 100 yards. Sometimes I get a flier and it makes a liar out of me. 3 inches is a good day for open sights. And actually when I had a T/C Peep sight on my Renegade, I could on occasion shoot under three inches at 100 yards, depending on sunlight and shadows. But the main group is usually in there, where a kill zone would be. And that is plenty good for hunting.

The secret to good accuracy with a TC 1:48 is a very tight patch/ball combination and moderate powder charges. Most guys who buy .490 balls for their .50 TC and a pack of .015 prepackaged patch material are not going to get the accuracy the barrel is capable of, especially if they drop 100 grains of powder down the bore.

In my 50 cal I shoot a .490 ball and a .020 (dosen't like .015) patch with 80-90 grains of FFG. One of my 54's likes a .530 ball with a .015 patch the other likes a .020 patch both like around 90-100 grains of FFg. All of those shoot baseball size groups off a rest at 75 yards. These are hunting guns so that is plenty good. All of the deer I have taken I have had all pass thru's. I feel the 1:48 twist is under rated and if you find the right patch/ball/powder charge combo they can be great round ball shooters. Now I will say my GM barrels pretty much shoot any ball/patch/powder charge I throw in it. But I would rather carry a rifle with a 26" barrel through the laurel thickets up the mountain than I would a rifle with a 32" barrel.

Well I must admit that the two most accurate PRB guns I have own were not TC 1-48 twist guns. One is a Hopkins & Allen 58 caliber that with a really tight PRB would tear a raged hole at 100 yds the load it liked was 100grains, the other was a 54 I hand built with a green river barrel which I used in the Hawken and Mountain man competition at Friendship. But with that aside I have gotten good accuracy from the 45 50 and 54 TC 1-48 barrels I have. One of the things I have found is that it takes a scope to really find out what a gun will do at 100yds.