what we think the top 10 muzzleloaders general public is buying
 

I hate to do this but almost have to. no bashing each other over what there picks are.

here is what some of I think are the top 10, not in any order. I will not explain them all.

cva wolf (low cost, great beginner rifle, accurate)
tc encore (all kinds of after market products to improve it)
cva accura, (from all the reports, great rifle)
tc endeavor
traditions pursuit
knight disc (both orange and red). (finding alot of people dumping the older models in my area)
cva apex (interchangeable barrels)
tc impact (have an tc name at an cheap price)
cva optima
tc pro hunter (it wears the encore name, top end tc's all do anyway)
traditions vortex

why no more then one knight on my list, can't be found in any of my local gunshops right now. when I am thinking general public i am thinking what someone would see in an local store vs buying online.

Of all time, I have no idea, but for say, the last 12 months, I think a top three are:

1. CVA Wolf
2. T/C Impact
3. Traditions Bubble Pack Starter Gun

What about the TC Triumph

What about the TC Omega?

Omega and Triumph have to be in there some where. Probably before the Endeavor (I have one), just because of price. I agree with most of the others.

corey

This was done a few months back... It is not by specific ML's but by companies..

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...eferences.html

Yeah, I have no idea about of all time, but at this moment this is what most of the guys in my area use.
1. T/C Omega
2. T/C Black Diamond
3. Older Knights, but I'm not sure the model number. I only know one guy that has a newish one and that's a Revolution he just bought and has never shot.
4. CVA Wolf
5. CVA Optima
6. Traditions (not sure of the model, but it comes in a package at Walmart). I also only know of one person with one of these.

Those are pretty much what people in my area are using. The large majority of them are using T/C's or Knights, but a couple of them have the CVA's. One of the ones that has a Wolf and Optima also has a couple of Knights.

sabotloader I forgot about that one. but an break down of by make should be get people thinking.

as for the ones I did not list, just listed 10 so I ran out of room.

listed the endeavor because I see a few at the range. people in my area have money and like to show it off with the cars and toys, but complain about the price of coffee.

mountaineer magic. I don't know if that was an attack on me or not. but i have been out since the second week of early muzzleloader season. I am setting out the rest of rifle because i been sick for the last week. health over hunting this time.

pursuit ready pack is what those are. the wally world in my town only had two on the shelf this year.

CVA sells more Wolfs than TC sells guns in their entire line up. Im not sure how many Accuras,Optimas, Apex rifles they sell.

ML
 

Sorry that all of us cannot afford to pay the price for one of the new Knights like you have. I don't have a job anymore because I am 70 and am on SS. You probably call that welfare. Also I don't sit around whining about it either or throw it in peoples face that I have more than they have. Your arrogance is not called for.
For your info I have a CVA Accura V1, not because it was cheaper but because I liked it better than the others i checked out. I also have an Omega which I will use again someday if my Accura needs repair. It is my backup gun, cause the Accura outshoots it hands down.

Have a good day.

I can only tell you for certain what our group has which is:

2 Triumphs
1 Encore
1 700ML
2 Genesis
1 MK 85
1 Knight LRH
1 Knight Rolling Block
1 Prusuit
1 Wolf

That doesn't include the traditionals of course.

I used to think that a lot of people bought the cheapo MLs but as of late, I've noticed that people are now buying more quality guns. Maybe I have snobby hunter friends :s2:

I believe that a lot of first time buyers buy cheap and when they need a winch to pull the trigger and they have to listen to it grate crunch and groan before the gun goes off they start looking for some a bit better quality. The sad part is we loose some good people who walk away in disgust if the first one is a problem.

I bet they do, people in my area MLer hunt, just to stay out longer and only use the gun 3 weekends a year and to pick it up for under 200.00 that would be the choice. but, for anyone that spends time on a range and shoots for fun and hunting, would not waste their time on a Wolf.

For example the link Sabotloader posted only 8 out of 61 on this site would shoot a CVA and at graybeards 14 of 103. That tells the story of what real MLer shooters think of CVA.

where did you get that information? i find it hard to believe since CVA's are banned in a lot of countries.

We are 6 in our group and only two don't have a Knight.
I have a Knight Extreme,3 have Knight Bighorn,one has a Gonnick and my son in law hunt with my Tradition E-Bolt in-line and he like it.
With that E-Bolt I shot a big 7 points deers with a patch&ball at 85 yards ,dead on the spot.
Taureau noir

I'm also curious about this. Do you have any links? I'm not saying you are lying, because I have no idea who sells the most of anything and I know in a lot of area's people like cheap guns, however on the other hand it also does kind of surprise me because out of the many many guys I know that own muzzle loaders I only know 2 of them that own Wolfs, and one of them owns it because it was given to him. In other area's that is probably not the case though, but I'd just like to see more info on this.

In our area more people use T/C's by far than any other gun, and looking at the polls on here and Graybeards, it seems like more guys online use T/C's as well.

Hey BP however I don't agree with the way MM made his statement I do agree with his point and supporting companies that employ and use american products it is what this country needs in todays economy.

As far as you outshooting your buddies does not mean you have the better gun (accuracy) just means you are probably the better shot. When all the CVA Posters post up pics of there targets and distances, I know my TC's and Knights outshoot them or at least I can outshoot the shooter.

I guess I should'nt have said what I said about Me Outshooting My Buddys because of the ML I have, but Yes I do out shoot the shooter. No Way Can ANYONE out shoot a ML, Im sure any ML is way more accurate than the Shooter. This is all besides the Point of what I was trying to say. I was pointing out the fact that I bought My CVA ACCURA's because of how there made (Bergara Barrels) and how they Shoot. It was'nt because there Less Expensive than TC's or Knights. I do try to Support Buying American, but what Exactly is 100% American made anymore? Like I said above I'd be Really Surprised if 100% of all Parts that go into making the TC, Knights or whatever American Made ML you Buy are actually ALL American Made or even Made in America with All American Parts.
I dont Care What Anyone Shoots, to Each His Own, but lets Not Assume that Because one Buy's a Less Expensive ML that it's because it's all they can Afford.
Oh and I would'nt mind taking My ACCURA out and see exactly how Good You think You are with Your's. I dont get how one thinks that because it cost more that it shoots better Groups.
(BP)

Well I personally didnt read anywhere in this thread where anyone said that their muzzleloader shot better than a cva or that a cheap mler didn't shoot as well as an exspensive one. I think you are reading that in yourself.

But I will say that in my hands my tc's feel better made and the cva's are no where in the class of a knight when it comes to quality. I do believe bergera barrels are great but, I like the green mountains better.

I also don't believe anyone said people that buy cva do so because they are broke or don't have any money. As I said the people around me just buy the cheapest thing they can find to allow them to hunt longer.

I bought a 800 dollar gun 20yrs. Ago when I made 4.25 an hour and was supporting a wife and kid. You don't have to have money to buy an exspensive gun, just have to save longer. I also have a buddy that makes 115,000 a year and uses a wolf.

I don't where MM got where someone was out of work.

for me, I have not been able to get out and hunt because of work this year. I was not able to get to the range as much i wanted to because of leg injury due to work, that put me behind getting into the field by less then an week.

my personal collection
2 knights that I found at an good deal
1 win apex (cva kodiak) that i bought off md
1 cva plainsman flint lock (good deal on it)
2 cva hawken 50 and 54 cal (traded an rifle for one and built the other from parts)
1 stone mountain silver eagle (traditions based rifle)

I know all are great shooters once I get the glitches worked out.

really did not want an major debate, just what we have seen other used. :(

Just put my KonusPro 3-10x44 scope on my CVA Wolf. Look out targets!!

WOW, everyone is reading into MM's post more than he said. He DID NOT say anyone was out of work. He said if people didn't start buying and supporting american companies, they might find themselves out of work.

Well MD are you going to answer the question of where you got your facts about the wolf being the #1 saler or did you just pull that from where the sun don't shine?

Here i will pull it along to refresh memories......

Didn't say people buy CVA because their cheap....didn't even mention CVA

Didn't say that people out of work buy CVA's. he said people need to buy American before we all do not have a job
That is the message i think he was trying to get across.

I agree that buying American is important. I saw something on the news that said if everyone would just buy one American made product for Christmas how much it would boost our economy and create jobs.
I realize that it has become very difficult to buy only American products but if we all supported our country buy buying as much American made merchandise as possible we will all gain. A couple extra bucks here and there for products will be soon repaid in full.
At least I think that is what Chet was trying to point out.

Dang Your Right Boonechaser, My Apologies.
(BP)

this part, is what everyone including myself is what I read into.

but I have said this as well in past threads. you have to think about the american support for the imports that is based here in the states. you go and put them out of work too because they work for an company that imports guns?

CVA supports a large group of American companies as well as American Workers.

it's Hard to Buy anything that's Made in Only America anymore. I went through all My Hunting Clothes and looked at where they were made, I dont think any were made in the USA, along with My Levi's Jeans, My Carhart Coat ect, ect......
Also like I said above somewhere I doubt that all if those who think there ML is 100% American made with 100% American Made Parts are in for a Big Surprise. Do I think this is good, NO. But if we had to only rely and buy what is 100% American made we'd be going to Work Naked and also Walking there. It's a Shame I know, but also the Truth.
(BP)

Still dodging the #1 seller question?

You are 100% correct but, also think we could do what we can to by as much as we can from american companies. Just like the TV company Vizio which was stated to be made in the US for walmart and Sams. All the circuit boards are made in china. I am also one that just because it is american doesn't mean it is the best anymore (it's a shame but true) I will buy what is right for me in quality and price. i don't mind paying a little more to support an american company but, will not at a sacrifice to quality.

MD, they may employ a few americans to peddle their product but, they do not pay any to make them.

That wouldn't be a pretty sight. :s2::s2:
My thought is to at least keep it in mind when making a purchase and buying American as much a possible, things might turn around. :patriot:

"A few" employees would be a great understatement, actually a flat out lie. Now if we were talking about Knight, then yes your statement about employing a fee would be correct.

Really? where do you get your facts from? still haven't answered the #1 seller question.

As far as Knight yes it is a few and a few at green mountain, lehigh, easton and guess what they are american companies, too!!!

I agree Breech, very hard to buy just American made items these days. So I would say to all that make the statement I will only buy American made Guns do you apply the same practices for all your purchases?. When your wife goes to the store for a new shower curtain or school clothes for the kids, appliances, bicycles, TV's, do you insist they are all American made?. If not you are spending a helluva lot more money on foreign made products each year than you payed for that Muzzleloader.

The problem with CVA is all the jobs that would pay well here are done by people in spain. what's is done here equals low paying jobs.as Boonechaser stated,Knights subs are American company's with decent wages.the problem isn't with CVA or any other foreign company for that matter, it's our government and everyone who bought into the ( global economy BS) which benefits only corporations..and corrupt government officials..slap higher tariffs on CVA guns and level the playing field,and i assure everyone CVA wouldn't be selling near the rifles they are presently.free and "fair" trade is a positive thing..the problem is it doesn't exist, within the present trade policies of this country!

You all should whine more to your congressman/senator :D :D