Difference is, I am just posting for info for others, I am not going to whine complain and send emails and PM's back and forth with the board shills to handle the problem.

If they have not sent my rods out by next Friday, I will file a claim with my CC company and go on my way.

With you it seemed you would talk to someone SL or Grouse and be content with what they told you and then you would be back on here complaining again . BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

NO ONE, they said they left it on the porch without a signature.

You got them by the nuts then.

It looks like knight did there job and sent your package to you . Your problem to me should be with UPS and the way they make deliverys

I am mad at UPS and i know if i do the leg work that Knight (The people who have my money but i do not have my product) wants me to, I will receive my money back.

But, No my problem is with who it belongs. i am a shipping manager by trade and if this happens to us, we send out a replacement right away and file a claim with UPS.

Who in business would expect a customer to do the leg work, when their shipper fell down? Not my fault, why should i have to extra running around to do what? wait for UPS to refund my money and then reorder two new rods. hell by then the sale may be over and they could be back to 75.00.

So, like i said if they have not shipped me new rods by next friday, i will order two new ones and file a claim with my CC company for the first, that i did not receive.

W.W.

In cases of CC use as "card-not-present" (mail order or etail) it is accepted law that the responsibility and risk for the transaction falls to the 'seller'.

Unfortunately, Knight has a choice to make. Either require signature/signature waiver (added cost), insurance (added cost), resend (added cost), do nothing and get a CC chargeback (added cost).

CC fraud has gotten so bad, that the banks and CC issuers got were able to push risk back on sellers for card-not-present transactions.

That is not to say there is an inherent responsibility to keep 'track of your stuff' when you are awaiting a shipment. But there is no legal responsibility to do so, unless you specifically waived signature and insurance, which I do not think he did.

How does Knight (or any other company) know that someone didn't receive the goods and are just saying they didn't to get extra products or money back?

How does UPS (or any other company) know that their driver made an error or it was stolen or the customer is just saying they didn't recieve the goods just to get extra products or their money back?

I'm failing to see how Knight is at fault here. They shipped the products to you. The issue should be with UPS if anyone. Perhaps both Knight shipped them and UPS delivered them and someone stole them from your porch. In that case, neither one is at fault.

Bad things happen all the times and I know we always look for someone to be at fault. A lot of times there is just reason for our anger. But in some instances, it's just a bad experience and it has no bearing on the overal sucess of a company or person.

No, I did not waive and i am usually here for all deliveries, i was told my Mountaineer would be here Monday and guess where i was by the time I know my UPS man runs.

I was actually taking everyone elses experience with Knight and figured it would be 2 weeks before I received them. so, beings i was on vacation and it is hunting season. I left to go last Wednesday and returned Monday afternoon. I received the email from Knight saying it had shipped on Thursday last week while I was in my stand.

They are not at fault in a moral sense, but the banks/CC companies have made it plain in law:

"Unless you swipe the card and get an in person signature, all liability lies with the seller".

Basically, Knight is being a bit of a noob.

As stated i deal with this exact thing at least every week at my job. it is standard practice for the shipper to file the claim (and this is the problem, not that the product went missing)

So, yes I have a problem with Knight, expecting me to do the leg work to receive my money back. I will not do it, i can write a short letter to my CC company and it is over for me and they will be out the $80 bucks or the will file the claim anyway, to get their money back from UPS.