That is why I really decided to let sqezer send me his 1-20 - I got a big variety of 40 cal bullets that i want to try in it. I am not going to spend a lot of time with it but I would really like to see what the problem has been in the past. I got to go buy some 357's also and try them.

see, i really think 1-24 is the number also but I do not no who i need to convince and how I can do it without one. And again I have shot most of them from my 50 cal 1-24 white with the thick blue MMP sabots and they shoot really well - no complaints, but I do not know if that proves anything????

And then again I do not think we should rule out the 1-22 -> but that is up to you check for us.

I am going to talk to Del next week i will see if I can get some sabot information and have him send some 357 - 45 cal sabots. If he does I will get you some also.

Mike, a couple of ideas. My personal opinion is that part of the problem with faster twist barrels like the 1-20 is due to the sabot not being able to grip the bullet hard enough to keep it from slipping. A tighter combination and perhaps knurling the bullets might help. There also is a mistake idea floating around that you can not over stabilize a bullet, it is true that they will go much farther in that direction than they will when under stabilized but they can be over stabilized and also the faster you spin them the more critical a perfect bullet that is perfectly centered becomes and getting a bullet perfectly centered is unlikely when putting it in a sabot.
If some one could come up with a gain twist barrel in a 45 caliber it might be interesting to see if it relieved some of these problems.

Ive got plenty or MMP blue 357x45s and a few PR Orange versions. My 35X bullet supply is very low though. All i have left are a few 200gr 358s which are SUPER tight and have a short bearing surface compared to the ogive length. These have proven to be extremely hard to get anything that even resembles a group. If i had a sizing die i MIGHT be able to make a better effort with them.

IMO the best current 357 or 358 for this application is the Hornady180gr single shot pistol bullet but to make any real gains, they need some serious fps. Hornady also offers a 357 180gr XTP that might work also. The only way ive gotten 357s to fit the way I LIKE is the 9mms and none are heavy enough for a serious long range option. 180gr IMO is minimum and a 200gr would be preferred because getting a true .300 BC is possible.

Normally i say BC is over rated but there are some exceptions to my opinion. Mainly when used in either long heavy conicals shot slower (under 1500fps) or real rifle quality bullets shot fairly fast (over 2100fps). Docs big/long conicals retain huge amounts of energy even past 250 yards. Surprisingly they shed very little fps. High speed sabot load BCs though really aren't as relevant until you reach beyond the 200 yard mark....IMO of course.

The 358 200gr bullets i tried were really tight in my Knights and my Pacnor SM grade barrel is even tighter. My Original is really tight too but i wont have time to shoot it today. I ran onto an interesting problem with some tight sabots. They can actually hurt accuracy if the petals are over stressed.stretched when loading. It seems most apparent in thin petal sabots like the 458x50 and 475x50. The 357x45 are not thin so it might work with subs and the right bullet. The only ones i can get locally for testing in a hunting weight are Sierra 190 FMJ made for silhouette shooters unless Cabelas has some of the PR Dead Centers. They seem to work "ok" because IMO the obturate easily and fit the base of the sabot very well with the slight BT.

They absolutely wont work with smokeless with the exception of the 195gr PR 357x45. It will work with a few semi mild loads. Its actually Del's favorite in his 45cal NULA using reduced amounts of 4759 at speeds similar to BH209 or slightly higher.

It has been my opinion for a long time that (roughly) a 40-220gr copper and a 40-240gr SST type would be the ideal long range options for a faster twist 45 in currently available sabots AND they should even give reasonable results in current rifles. They might need a heavier charge of BH209 to stabilize in a slower twist but i THINK its possible considering ive seen "decent" groups with PRs 40cals upto 260gr in a 1-28 and a 1-30 45.

My personal wish is for a 45x411 in a long and short petal versions. The short can shoot the 41mag 210gr bullets and the long can shoot the huge 300gr 405Winchester bullet. The 405Win is the round that replaced most of the old 45 and 40xXXX rounds near the turn of the century because it shot much flatter and faster with less recoil at common "plains" ranges. The BC is only about .260 for the Hornady 405Win 300gr but its weight will help retain alot of its energy. I would size some down enough to fit but they are too long for current sabots IMO and im not sure the sabot is strong enough either.

Well the car is loaded up and this is probably my last chance to dial in before the season unless i can take off in the middle of the week. I just need a little fine tuning of my NULA load and then i need to dial in the Pacnor 1-22 with smokeless for my main long range option.

I should have some time left over for some BH209 tests since its only me and one friend. He got the range ready for upto 150 yard if we shoot from the upper level of the polebarn. This should simulate our tree stand elevation and shooting conditions. Its nice and cool today so that should help to get it as close to the temps for opening weekend.

I may be using BH209 loads that exceed sub gun recommendations if i have enough time. If they shoot good i will post the data but please approach it with caution. IMO its probably safe but i have no way to verify it is safe in all brands. The first tests will probably be just 50 yard stuff to check fps and checking primers/sabots for high pressure signs. If i can get some of those loads to shoot bug holes at 50 yards on a sled, i will see how they hold up at 100 yards or possibly more in condition more similar to field conditions..

Have a good one, im leaving now. I might spend the night down there if i find something that looks very promising and needs more testing. That way i can simulate a over night hunt on a fouled bore and a next morning POI comparison after being left loaded all night in cooler temps.

This weekend didn't turn out as planned and i had to scrub testing heavy amounts of BH209 and most 45cal shooting. The wind started kicking up and im just getting over a upper respiratory infection. It decided to make my weekend unpleasant and i was barely able to shoot a few decent groups and get ready for next weekends opener.

I barely managed to get my NULA sited in under hunting type conditions with 2 bullets/powders out to 150 yards. I did well enough i put most of the 45cal shooting on hold until i can get to a good benchrest and i don't feel like hell.

I will post the only two NULA 50cal targets i saved later. I forgot the camera but did bring home two targets shot under "my hunting type" conditions and longer ranges. Certainly was not my best shooting even on the ones off the sled and i only fired a few smokeless shots in the Pacnor to make sure the FED209s i wanted to use were going to work.

I felt like i was just having a VERY "off day" and the data would have been to badly effected by conditions i couldn't control.

Sorry Sabotloader, i really wanted to give it a shot.