Old timer this statement just amazes me!the folks at T/C, spent many years building the company to what it was when they chose to sell it.calling them greedy is just wrong on your part.just consider what T/C had to deal with.foreign products built with cheap labor, flooding the market.not to mention, every time they designed something it was copied.i suppose you consider Barnes greedy also, since they sold out to Remington! :hit:i say good for Barnes and T/C, they earned it and there products are still made here to boot!!

If it were about money TC/SW would be suing the following companies as well due to the fact they make replacement barrels for the TC brand muzzleloader. Why? Because they can offer a better barrel than whats on TC right now.
MGM
Pacnor
E.AB

How many makers make new updated parts, accessories, barrels for the AR15? An unknown number of companies.

Knight made the first mass produces inline. That old thing back then was just a spec in the dust. An experimental deal.

What I hope is that they were deliberately waiting on all these patten infringements until they had enough to put them foreign copycats out of business.

Don't forget Marlin while you're at it.

once again. think about the support staff that is based on american soil. from the newest person in the mail room to the person in charge of day to day operations.

guess I am more open minded over imports then most.

copycats or not. wish an company to be put out of business. is wishing people losing jobs here and abroad.

sorry if I seem like I don't care about made in the usa products or if I don't care if the is an infringement lawsuit going on. but I do care if peoples jobs are on the line. that is either usa based or foreign based companies.

I don't think that S&W or TC are the bad guys. TC was losing money and S&W subsidizes it with their plentiful assets. S&W needed to turn TC back into a profitable company again.
If there's patent infringements then those companies will probably end up paying a lump some settlement for them.
If it needs to go to court before it gets settled then it will.
And if there's a settlement offer then it will be fair to everyone or it won't be accepted and there will be a trial.
There's European countries and companies that file complaints against American companies too.
It's not like our companies are any greedier than theirs.
Time will tell which company is right and which is wrong.

If you really think that way, you need to include,Remington,Winchester,Marlin and others.there are custom barrel makers for those rifles also.custom barrel makers have been around as long as the rifles there made for. :s13:

Jon, the best all around M/L barrel on the market presently is a GMB IMHO. they are accurate and shoot well with saboted bullets,and conicals, including full fore lead.best move Knight made was to continue using GMB barrels.

I never said they didn't work hard to build up a good company. I never said they didn't deserve to sell the company for a good price.

I said.....they had no concern for the faithful employees that worked for them to build up the company. Some of them probably working for them their whole working career. TC knew a lot of them would lose their jobs, because it was their home, and had no interest in moving to Mass.
TC just shrugged that off for profit. They chose money over loyalty. Nothing new about that. It's the American way. However, this American will never buy another TC product.

Maybe you should stop being amazed at what I say, and try and understand it out.

You'll give me a good laugh if what I said here amazes you again.

A GM barrel is very good, but no better than a Bergara barrel.

There the strongest mass produced M/L barrel made and accurately shoot full bore lead extremely well. something neither T/C or Bergara's do well.so as i stated, there the best all around M/L barrel IMHO. Knight seems to have other problems, but not in the barrel department.if they ever produce a break action with a hammer and didn't look like an ugly shot gun. i would buy one in a heart beat.;)

This is the point that we basically disagree on. CVA is only an importer. And Bergera is strictly a manufacturer. I simply disagree that they are one in the same. IMO they are two ships that pass in the night(dramatization). CVA would buy from someone else tomorrow if another they made a less costly product for them to sell. Tom.

It seems to me, but i am not 100% positive, Toby has written about shooting 10,000 shots through his long range hunter. He experienced the same accuracy at 10,000, that he witnessed at 1000.

The past 2 years have seen me extensively testing breech plug modifications, and home made breech plugs. A way more shots have been fired by me through my Bergara Barrel, than i would have, had i only been sighting in, and hunting. Judging by how it feels to push a bullet down to the powder, the Bergara Barrel of the Accura is showing significant wear. The number of shots fired wasn't counted, so i can only guess i have fired some less than 2000 shots through this barrel.

Naturally i don't have near enough data to make a strong conclusion, but it seems to me that my Bergara Barrel is wearing considerable faster than Toby' Green Mountain Barrel. It seems to me the Bergara Barrel are 'softer' than the Green Mountain Barrel.

Unless, i am incorrect about Toby shooting 10,000 shots through his Rifle, i am forced to conclude that the Green Mountain Barrel are 'better' than Bergara Barrel.

Tom, from the stand point there both owned by BPI, they are indeed one in the same IMHO.as far as buying barrels from someone else, why would they lol? they own Bergara. i have to agree with you on buying from someone as far as accessory items are concerned.unlike Knight, who truly contracts there barrels from GMB. BPI cut out the middleman and owns Bergara along with CVA and other companies, which is smart business.

over 3,000 shots in my original Accura when i sold it. No wear and no looseness. I used a lot of Thors is that which are very sensitive in barrel diameter changes and they all loaded like the day i got that Accura.

I still have over 1,400 rounds in the closet to shoot this winter and i highly doubt i'll find any wear in my old or new Optima's.

then again vent liners, knight, savage or homemade for you seem to wear out after only 100 yards while im still running my original plugs.

Are we basing our opinions on Toby Bridges now? When did that start?

Is your Bergara barrel less accurate now?

Lets not put TC and Bergara in the same breath for shooting conicals. TC has the conical problem. CVA is fine with them. Otherwise I wouldn't have bought one. I don't shoot plastic wrapped bullets.

I don't know.



I want to write that it is less accurate now, than it was when it was newish, but i don't really know for sure.

OMG, your back on that old Omega out of round QLA subject. you been hangin with Jon to long lol. T/C's won't shoot Thors or FPB's?. a lot of folks will tell you different.

theres a lot of folks who have to keep sending their barrel back to hopefully get one that shoots conicals well. I know muleys Omega wouldnt shoot the powerbelts at all. FPB's are a bear to load.

I'm going by my own experience. The Omega shot Thors pretty good. Not as good as the CVA's i've owned though. It sucked with every other conical I tried. I would chalk that up to just the gun I had, BUT..........when I asked TC about it. They said the gun was made for sabots. I said what about us who can't shoot them in our state? He stuttered for awhile, and I ended his pain by saying it's ok. Then sold the gun.

Jon doesn't influence what I say. I always speak from personal experience. If we end up saying the same thing. It's what we both experienced.

This statement doesn't really make much sense, but i decipher it to be a slam at the posts i have made about flash hole erosion. What i wrote was more of a report on how many shots it took to erode flash holes to 0.035". Indeed, it did only take a little over 100 shots to achieve this amount of wear. However, i don't recall ever writing these plug/ventliner were 'worn out'.


Just so you know, i measure the diameter of flash hole using the set of pin gages pictured in the photo below.





It is possible for me to use my eyeball, and see the difference between a flash hole that measures 0.035", and one that measures 0.028". However, one cannot eyeball a flash hole, and 'know' it's size after thousands of shots. The laws of physics show, that a flash hole increases in size with each and every shot through it, and after enough shots will increase by 0.001", and then another, and so on etc.

It saves having to drill it out. :D

cough:hit: cough,cough:hit: ok whatever you say old timer:s13:

Here are 2 new old hex head plug i just modified this morning to reliably ignite BH209. They will be mailed to 2 happy shooters this week










They have been modified to a design extensively tested to ignite BH in all kinda weather and/or conditions. Note the flame channel is enlarged to 5/32". The powder end is drilled and tapped to receive a vent liner. When the powder end was being worked for the vent liner, a small powder chamber was also created. These vent liner have 0.028" flash hole, thus will be good for a couple hundred shots or so, before their flash hole grows to 0.035".

20 cans of BH209 through my new optima and no modded plug. Just head spacing.

What part made you cough? I'm not happy being called a liar.

Back up your cough.

What?!? No oohs or aahs for my nice photos of my nice work?!? Didn't you notice the photos were of hex head plugs; why you write back about QRBP plug?

Ron, you make really nice breechplugs.

Not with my Encore. Sit the FPB bullet in the QLA and give the short starter a sharp whack with the heel of your hand: It's in the bore.

Regarding FPBs being hard to load;


Not with my Omega either. No harder than a snug sabot, no pre-sizing needed.

It really depends on your gun's barrel.

You'll break your hand before you get one down a CVA bore.

CVA bore = .500
FPB = .503

A - Not all CVA bores are .500
B - My Genesis is .5015 and I can load them just fine.

Agree with Hubby11 ,my X7 Omega shoots the 350gr FPB light outs and loads no harder then a .452 DC in a crush rib sabot .Darn good groups from White Power Punch and No Excuses too.

Wilson barrels could solve all problems !!!!
Steve

Latest CVA's.

Does it have a Bergara barrel?

All ML barrels vary slightly regardless of the make.

Are you saying that a Bergara .500 barrel is smaller than a non Bergara .500 barrel? Dimensions don't change just because of the manufacturer. :confused0024:

The point is, people shoot the FPB in small bored guns all the time. Don't be so broad in your assessments of functionality.

I've had 3 CVA's, and they all took a .500 Thor. The same with Jon.
I tried the FPB in all my CVA's, and couldn't get them started.

So, i'm assuming all the Bergara CVA's have a .500 bore.

I asked Hornady what the diameter of the FPB is, and they told me .503. Western Powder found out the same thing. See link below.

I'm finding it hard to believe that a .503 bullet can get down a tight bore.

Does your gun have a Bergara barrel. Not a hard question.

http://www.blackhorn209.com/wp-conte...loaderdata.pdf

Genesis = Traditions

Really? I was wondering why I couldn't figure out what it was. I thought maybe it was some old CVA.

The whole thing makes no sense now. Then again.........it's a forum.

Yep made by Traditions for Remington