On another note, the Vision taught me what this "dreaded crud ring" was that everyone talks about. My 2 CVA's don't have major problems with the crud ring, so it was an unpleasant surprise to find it happening with the Vision. I tried switching to T7 primers, but didn't notice any difference in the crud ring, so I switched back to the Win W209's.

I found that I needed to swab 1 spit patch and 2 dry patches between shots to keep the crud ring manegable.

Thanks so much Nimrodder... I really needed to see that. :s10:

i just went to buy one from the sportsmansguide and they wont ship it to michigan I have bought 2 muzzleloaders in the past from them and dont know whats changed ?

You guys are really making me wish I'd bought one when they had the stainless ones. I came very close to buying one, and ended up deciding not to. I'd probably order one now if they still had them, so it's probably a good thing they don't.

Some States have strange shipping laws. If you have someone that you could have it shipped to and then have them ship it to you, that would work. It would cost you about $15.00 additional shipping is all.

On one hand I am tempted to purchase the rifle and then I look around the gun room at all of the corners full, and the rack and such and tell myself.. I really don't have a need for another rifle. But for that money, that is a heck of a rifle.

thanks thats a good idea

Congrats on some good shooting. Sportsmans Guide has those guns pretty reasonable; i may just buy one.

how's the trigger on that vision? I've heard that they can be pretty stiff

The trigger seems fine to me. I didn't notice any creep, and the trigger broke cleanly at the same place every shot. I have no way of measuring how many pounds the trigger pull is, but I would say it is slightly heavier than my CVA Wolf, which has a light trigger. Probably not the kind of trigger you want for long range competitions, but just fine in my book for regular hunting and target shooting.