Trigger Quality?
09-22-2011, 06:26 AM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 921
Trigger Quality?
Many post on gun reviews and general discussions talk about a great trigger, an adjustable trigger, a horrible trigger, etc.
How does one judge a trigger?
Is there an easy way to measure break?
What exactly is trigger creep?
How important is all of this in hunting vs bench shooting?
I know it's several questions but I would like to know more on this subject. I tried searching the subject but it was difficult to pick through the clutter.
Thanks,
How does one judge a trigger?
Is there an easy way to measure break?
What exactly is trigger creep?
How important is all of this in hunting vs bench shooting?
I know it's several questions but I would like to know more on this subject. I tried searching the subject but it was difficult to pick through the clutter.
Thanks,
09-22-2011, 09:02 AM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Posts: 10,917
Josmund, generally speaking the better the trigger the easier it is to shoot a gun accurately. It's more telling on the bench, but important for hunting also.
What we look for is usually described as a "crisp" break. It's a bit difficult to describe. It's easier to describe a bad trigger. A rubbing, sliding, grinding or "crunchy" feeling just before the trigger breaks is not desirable.
Trigger creep is the distance the trigger must be moved to the rear before it breaks. It's not necessarily bad. There are two situations. One where the trigger moves to the rear bit smoothly with little resistance to a point where it feels firm, then breaks clean. This is OK once you get to know your trigger. The other is where the trigger moves to the rear for some distance with constant or variable resistance and is difficult to tell when it's going to break - much less desirable.
Trigger weight (i.e. pull weight) is the force, measured in pounds, that it takes to activate the trigger. Anything in the two to four pounds range is fine. Lighter than that is not usually good in a hunting situation, the exception being double set triggers that the user is familiar with and is practiced with. A heavier pull that breaks clean is manageable and can be shot fairly well with practice. But anything over six pounds or so is not good. A heavy bad trigger with a lot of creep and crunch is a miserable thing indeed.
Pull weight is measured with a trigger pull scale. A fairly accurate way to measure pull weight without a trigger scale is with a plastic jug tied to the trigger, and a common kitchen scale. It's easier done with two people. One to hold the assembly and one to slowly add water to the jug until the trigger breaks. (See picture.) Fill the jug until the trigger breaks, then weigh it to see how many pounds it took to activate the trigger.
What we look for is usually described as a "crisp" break. It's a bit difficult to describe. It's easier to describe a bad trigger. A rubbing, sliding, grinding or "crunchy" feeling just before the trigger breaks is not desirable.
Trigger creep is the distance the trigger must be moved to the rear before it breaks. It's not necessarily bad. There are two situations. One where the trigger moves to the rear bit smoothly with little resistance to a point where it feels firm, then breaks clean. This is OK once you get to know your trigger. The other is where the trigger moves to the rear for some distance with constant or variable resistance and is difficult to tell when it's going to break - much less desirable.
Trigger weight (i.e. pull weight) is the force, measured in pounds, that it takes to activate the trigger. Anything in the two to four pounds range is fine. Lighter than that is not usually good in a hunting situation, the exception being double set triggers that the user is familiar with and is practiced with. A heavier pull that breaks clean is manageable and can be shot fairly well with practice. But anything over six pounds or so is not good. A heavy bad trigger with a lot of creep and crunch is a miserable thing indeed.
Pull weight is measured with a trigger pull scale. A fairly accurate way to measure pull weight without a trigger scale is with a plastic jug tied to the trigger, and a common kitchen scale. It's easier done with two people. One to hold the assembly and one to slowly add water to the jug until the trigger breaks. (See picture.) Fill the jug until the trigger breaks, then weigh it to see how many pounds it took to activate the trigger.
Last edited by Semisane; 09-22-2011 at 09:07 AM.
09-22-2011, 09:11 AM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
I'm anal about a good trigger, even had my 1100 slug gun and 552 Speedmaster adjusted back in the 70s when I was still a teen...
I use a digital fish scale to measure mine...On my flinters I like a Davis double trigger...My inline is a Knight disc with a good adjustable trigger...My bolt is a tang safety Ruger set at 2 1/2 pounds...I also like Remington 700s as I can adjust their trigger myself...
I use a digital fish scale to measure mine...On my flinters I like a Davis double trigger...My inline is a Knight disc with a good adjustable trigger...My bolt is a tang safety Ruger set at 2 1/2 pounds...I also like Remington 700s as I can adjust their trigger myself...
09-22-2011, 02:26 PM
#7
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 921
Josmund, generally speaking the better the trigger the easier it is to shoot a gun accurately. It's more telling on the bench, but important for hunting also.
What we look for is usually described as a "crisp" break. It's a bit difficult to describe. It's easier to describe a bad trigger. A rubbing, sliding, grinding or "crunchy" feeling just before the trigger breaks is not desirable.
Trigger creep is the distance the trigger must be moved to the rear before it breaks. It's not necessarily bad. There are two situations. One where the trigger moves to the rear bit smoothly with little resistance to a point where it feels firm, then breaks clean. This is OK once you get to know your trigger. The other is where the trigger moves to the rear for some distance with constant or variable resistance and is difficult to tell when it's going to break - much less desirable.
Trigger weight (i.e. pull weight) is the force, measured in pounds, that it takes to activate the trigger. Anything in the two to four pounds range is fine. Lighter than that is not usually good in a hunting situation, the exception being double set triggers that the user is familiar with and is practiced with. A heavier pull that breaks clean is manageable and can be shot fairly well with practice. But anything over six pounds or so is not good. A heavy bad trigger with a lot of creep and crunch is a miserable thing indeed.
Pull weight is measured with a trigger pull scale. A fairly accurate way to measure pull weight without a trigger scale is with a plastic jug tied to the trigger, and a common kitchen scale. It's easier done with two people. One to hold the assembly and one to slowly add water to the jug until the trigger breaks. (See picture.) Fill the jug until the trigger breaks, then weigh it to see how many pounds it took to activate the trigger.
What we look for is usually described as a "crisp" break. It's a bit difficult to describe. It's easier to describe a bad trigger. A rubbing, sliding, grinding or "crunchy" feeling just before the trigger breaks is not desirable.
Trigger creep is the distance the trigger must be moved to the rear before it breaks. It's not necessarily bad. There are two situations. One where the trigger moves to the rear bit smoothly with little resistance to a point where it feels firm, then breaks clean. This is OK once you get to know your trigger. The other is where the trigger moves to the rear for some distance with constant or variable resistance and is difficult to tell when it's going to break - much less desirable.
Trigger weight (i.e. pull weight) is the force, measured in pounds, that it takes to activate the trigger. Anything in the two to four pounds range is fine. Lighter than that is not usually good in a hunting situation, the exception being double set triggers that the user is familiar with and is practiced with. A heavier pull that breaks clean is manageable and can be shot fairly well with practice. But anything over six pounds or so is not good. A heavy bad trigger with a lot of creep and crunch is a miserable thing indeed.
Pull weight is measured with a trigger pull scale. A fairly accurate way to measure pull weight without a trigger scale is with a plastic jug tied to the trigger, and a common kitchen scale. It's easier done with two people. One to hold the assembly and one to slowly add water to the jug until the trigger breaks. (See picture.) Fill the jug until the trigger breaks, then weigh it to see how many pounds it took to activate the trigger.
Great explanation.
09-22-2011, 02:47 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
Semi I think you and I have a different definition of trigger nomenclature.
IMO there is three factors. Travel. Creep. And weight of pull.
Alot of triggers have what is called take up or travel. That is what I call the distance you have to pull some triggers before the trigger "takes up", or engages. IMO it is that point where "creep comes into play". I don't think all the travel is considered "creep". Only the distance the trigger travels once it is engaged. For example a trigger on a Coly 1911(or AR15). Even the finest 1# target trigger on most 1911's have trigger travel. Then once the travel is taken up and the trigger is engaged does "creep" come into play.
IMO creep is the real bad thing. This IMO is the amount of distance a trigger can travel once it is engaged but before the firearm fires.
"Crisp" to me means a trigger that has NO CREEP. In other words it is engaged as soon as you take the safety off. So the trigger does not move at all. The only impedement to firing is the weight of pull.
Weight of pull is not as important for a good trigger as what creep is bad for a good trigger. A 3# trigger with no creep is a very fine hunting trigger. Tom.
IMO there is three factors. Travel. Creep. And weight of pull.
Alot of triggers have what is called take up or travel. That is what I call the distance you have to pull some triggers before the trigger "takes up", or engages. IMO it is that point where "creep comes into play". I don't think all the travel is considered "creep". Only the distance the trigger travels once it is engaged. For example a trigger on a Coly 1911(or AR15). Even the finest 1# target trigger on most 1911's have trigger travel. Then once the travel is taken up and the trigger is engaged does "creep" come into play.
IMO creep is the real bad thing. This IMO is the amount of distance a trigger can travel once it is engaged but before the firearm fires.
"Crisp" to me means a trigger that has NO CREEP. In other words it is engaged as soon as you take the safety off. So the trigger does not move at all. The only impedement to firing is the weight of pull.
Weight of pull is not as important for a good trigger as what creep is bad for a good trigger. A 3# trigger with no creep is a very fine hunting trigger. Tom.
Last edited by HEAD0001; 09-22-2011 at 04:12 PM.
09-23-2011, 02:26 AM
#10
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW Virginia
Posts: 353
Military triggers of old had what are called 2-stage triggers. The trigger moves freely until it comes to a stop just before the sear "breaks" (fires). Modern sporting rifles have single stage triggers which break without the initial takeup (or are supposed to). Many have "creep", which is sear movement that can be felt before the sear disengages. All rifles have creep (sear movement) or they would not fire, but in a good trigger, creep cannot be felt by the shooter.
Personally, I find creep extremely annoying. I have been working on my own triggers since I began target shooting about 50 years ago. Over the years, I have been quite successful in removing all felt creep in factory bolt action triggers. A challenging trigger I have worked on is in my Encore 209-50. I had it apart again yesterday, since it had the tiniest bit of creep in it's 2.5 lb. trigger pull, and I am determined that there be none. There are no adjustments, so in order to remove creep one must stone surfaces, change the sear notch angle, etc. Testing to insure that the trigger is safe requires reassembling the action repeatedly to see how I am progressing.
Personally, I find creep extremely annoying. I have been working on my own triggers since I began target shooting about 50 years ago. Over the years, I have been quite successful in removing all felt creep in factory bolt action triggers. A challenging trigger I have worked on is in my Encore 209-50. I had it apart again yesterday, since it had the tiniest bit of creep in it's 2.5 lb. trigger pull, and I am determined that there be none. There are no adjustments, so in order to remove creep one must stone surfaces, change the sear notch angle, etc. Testing to insure that the trigger is safe requires reassembling the action repeatedly to see how I am progressing.