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Originally Posted by cayugad
(Post 3845486)
In all the years of shooting plunger guns, the only time I got caught was shooting BlackHorn 209 out of my Black Diamond. And yes, the primer blew apart. I blame that on my choice of powder. I have shot a ton of primers through the Stag Horn Magnum and Black Diamond using regular powder, but perhaps Grouse is on to something.. I seldom shoot more then 100 grains of powder out of them.
Now I have had primers come apart. But they always seem to be in the plunger area of the rifle. In my three Knight Wolverines, I shoot #11 caps and that combination works sweet. I did get a chunk of musket caps once off my Black Mountain Magnum that got me good. It kind of surprised me when it buried that flange off the top hat in my forehead. I forget the powder charge that day. BTW- I got hit more then once. I actually got disgusted and told sabotloader he can handle the plunger gun with Knight. Sabotloader has already found a safer way to make the plunger gun, and a much better alternative in the Knight Extreme. |
Dangerous, i don't think so. i have two plunger guns, a CVA StagHorn that has been fired at least 1,000 times using 209 primers, and a TC Black Diamond. When using the 209 primer setup, the Black Diamond is the dirtiest gun in the whole world. Mine is set up for musket caps using the plain old musket nipple: It works well and makes for a much cleaner gun.
One of my guns is a CVA Mag Hunter set up for 209 primers. That gun has been fired hundreds of times using 130-150 grain charges of Pyrodex. i call it a firing pin gun. Its a heavy firing pin, that maybe could be be called a plunger. The CVA bolt handle locks the bolt closed.  |
It's like this falcon. When you show Grouse that the guns are fun to shoot, accurate to the nth degree and easy to maintain, basically that they fit the bill for just about anything you might want to do in hunting in our Continent he gets frustrated. Then he pulls the Safety Card out of his bag of tricks and tries to convince everyone that they are unsafe. I have seen him do this same thing with other Muzzleloader subjects. He does this because they are not the type of gun he is promoting at the moment. Talk about a Randy Wakeman wannabe. He grates on my nerves something fierce. I shouldn't let him since I know that is the whole reason he started this thread.
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I've owned and shot many plunger guns. No safety concerns for me either. The primer cup will be sideways sometimes out of my 700ML but never once have I had a piece leave the breech area.
FWIW, I've shot 460g Bullhshops and over 100g out of them for years. |
Originally Posted by flounder33
(Post 3845565)
It's like this falcon. When you show Grouse that the guns are fun to shoot, accurate to the nth degree and easy to maintain, basically that they fit the bill for just about anything you might want to do in hunting in our Continent he gets frustrated. Then he pulls the Safety Card out of his bag of tricks and tries to convince everyone that they are unsafe. I have seen him do this same thing with other Muzzleloader subjects. He does this because they are not the type of gun he is promoting at the moment. Talk about a Randy Wakeman wannabe. He grates on my nerves something fierce. I shouldn't let him since I know that is the whole reason he started this thread.
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Absolutely not, Dave (Cayugad) is a man with integrity. He also has a way of disagreeing with someone's opinion in a amicable way. He is someone you could learn a lot from about both muzzleloading and personal conduct.
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“Lol...so you are also calling cayugad a liar. “
I don't believe that anyone is calling anyone else a liar in this thread. From my viewpoint it seems to me that some posters have an agenda other than the free exchange of view points. They adhere to the good old American standard of “If I don't like it no one else should”. In perusing threads on several gun forums I often run into people creating controversial threads simply to call attention to themselves and pontificate on their own theories. The majority of these people are self proclaimed experts who lack the bona fides to promulgate empirical information other than their own opinions. |
If primers coming apart and hitting you is safe? Then your entitled to that opinion. To me, like I said in the very first post, in my opinion it is not. If you don't think the loads should be at 100grns by volume and lower, shoot and use what you want. It's really that easy to say the least. I got hit, cayugad got hit with Bh209, not sure about Sabotloader. If any of the info supplied does not sound right or make sense, don't use the information.
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Grouse45
I have noted that others say that they have had the same problem but nowhere in their postings do I see that they sought qualified expert input as to why it happened. If any gun I own malfunctions the first one I consult is a qualified gunsmith followed by contacting the guns manufacturer. I never try to correct the problem myself. When one of my Labs was young she jumped up and broke my nose. The same thing happened to one of my friend's wife with their lab and I have heard of it happening to other lab owners. By your way of thinking I should declare Labradors, the most popular breed of dogs in this country for the last nine years, as an unsafe breed of dogs to own. Simple logic prohibits me from doing so. |
Originally Posted by WCW
(Post 3845656)
Grouse45
Sorry, when one of my Labs was young she jumped up and broke my nose. The same thing happened to one of my friend's wife with their lab and I have heard of it happening to other lab owners. By your way of thinking I should declare Labradors, the most popular breed of dogs in this country for the last nine years, as an unsafe breed of dogs to own. Simple logic prohibits me from doing so. The claim of a few is that the inherent design of plunger guns makes them suspect when using 209 primers (some only with BH209). This is not based solely on personal experience but also on how the guns were designed. Seems like a reasonable topic of discussion. I was not going to get involved since I don't have a dog in this fight, but I find it somewhat amusing/disturbing that the initial post can be taken so personally by a few. Plunger guns were/are made by all the major brands so it's not a "mine's best, yours sux" issue. |
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