Mountaineer doesn't like Federal primers
08-14-2011 | 08:06 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: Rapid City, South Dakota
Gm54-120 wrote, "Im only guessing but it appears the anvil is backing out of the cup. Either the head spacing is off with the Fed209 or the primer pocket is not supporting that area on the primer very well."
One thing i would do is measure the primer length. Install the primer in the rifle, and close the bolt. Remove the primer without firing it. Measure the primer length again. Myself, i like to see the primer measure around 0.003" shorter after it has been in the rifle. This helps keep the anvil from walking out of the cup when fired.
Hopefully, the W209 primer will fall right out after being fired. If not, i wonder if trying a metric o-ring might be something to think about.
08-14-2011 | 09:53 AM
#12
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,612
Likes: 0
Ron, i do that too and just use a marker on the surfaces im checking. If the marked area is "blemished" i know im getting close and need to get out the micrometer and take better measurements. .003 sounds about right to me too and is about what i get in my Knights with a Win209.
Since Lehigh makes both plugs, i would bet the Win209 will work but the dedicated NFPJ bolt system is different than the conversions so its only a wild guess. I need more info for a better one.
IMO if Knight made the firing pin larger then that was a huge mistake and will be a PITA to correct.
Since Lehigh makes both plugs, i would bet the Win209 will work but the dedicated NFPJ bolt system is different than the conversions so its only a wild guess. I need more info for a better one.
IMO if Knight made the firing pin larger then that was a huge mistake and will be a PITA to correct.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 08-14-2011 at 09:55 AM.
08-14-2011 | 10:34 AM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Im only guessing but it appears the anvil is backing out of the cup. Either the head spacing is off with the Fed209 or the primer pocket is not supporting that area on the primer very well.
Like i mentioned this is pretty common on the Savage and most guys just fire it again to push the anvil back into the cup. Others do it "the right way" and mod the plug a bit deeper (for more support) and head space the primer.
A pic that would be very helpful is.....take out the breach plug and take pics of a couple of primers in the primer pocket of the plug. I would like to see if any of them sit deeper in the primer pocket. If a Win209 sits deeper in the plug than the Fed209, we know then it is likely hitting bottom and not stopping from pressure on the sides of the primer. The Win209 is longer but a bit more narrow (smaller OD) so that seems to be a logical conclusion.
Another thing i would like to see is...Does the new NFPJ bolt have a larger diameter firing pin than an older Knight bolt. Ive got a feeling they made the firing pin larger from some of the pics ive seen. My NULA leaves just a very small OD mark on the primer after firing and there is ZERO primer flow into the firing pin hole. This primer flow can make primer removal a PITA in a NFPJ setup. All of mine just fall out with Win209s in the Lehigh NFPJ and the anvils look fine even with max loads or a tad above.
Like i mentioned this is pretty common on the Savage and most guys just fire it again to push the anvil back into the cup. Others do it "the right way" and mod the plug a bit deeper (for more support) and head space the primer.
A pic that would be very helpful is.....take out the breach plug and take pics of a couple of primers in the primer pocket of the plug. I would like to see if any of them sit deeper in the primer pocket. If a Win209 sits deeper in the plug than the Fed209, we know then it is likely hitting bottom and not stopping from pressure on the sides of the primer. The Win209 is longer but a bit more narrow (smaller OD) so that seems to be a logical conclusion.
Another thing i would like to see is...Does the new NFPJ bolt have a larger diameter firing pin than an older Knight bolt. Ive got a feeling they made the firing pin larger from some of the pics ive seen. My NULA leaves just a very small OD mark on the primer after firing and there is ZERO primer flow into the firing pin hole. This primer flow can make primer removal a PITA in a NFPJ setup. All of mine just fall out with Win209s in the Lehigh NFPJ and the anvils look fine even with max loads or a tad above.
08-14-2011 | 10:35 AM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Im only guessing but it appears the anvil is backing out of the cup. Either the head spacing is off with the Fed209 or the primer pocket is not supporting that area on the primer very well.
Like i mentioned this is pretty common on the Savage and most guys just fire it again to push the anvil back into the cup. Others do it "the right way" and mod the plug a bit deeper (for more support) and head space the primer.
A pic that would be very helpful is.....take out the breach plug and take pics of a couple of primers in the primer pocket of the plug. I would like to see if any of them sit deeper in the primer pocket. If a Win209 sits deeper in the plug than the Fed209, we know then it is likely hitting bottom and not stopping from pressure on the sides of the primer. The Win209 is longer but a bit more narrow (smaller OD) so that seems to be a logical conclusion.
Another thing i would like to see is...Does the new NFPJ bolt have a larger diameter firing pin than an older Knight bolt. Ive got a feeling they made the firing pin larger from some of the pics ive seen. My NULA leaves just a very small OD mark on the primer after firing and there is ZERO primer flow into the firing pin hole. This primer flow can make primer removal a PITA in a NFPJ setup. All of mine just fall out with Win209s in the Lehigh NFPJ and the anvils look fine even with max loads or a tad above.
Like i mentioned this is pretty common on the Savage and most guys just fire it again to push the anvil back into the cup. Others do it "the right way" and mod the plug a bit deeper (for more support) and head space the primer.
A pic that would be very helpful is.....take out the breach plug and take pics of a couple of primers in the primer pocket of the plug. I would like to see if any of them sit deeper in the primer pocket. If a Win209 sits deeper in the plug than the Fed209, we know then it is likely hitting bottom and not stopping from pressure on the sides of the primer. The Win209 is longer but a bit more narrow (smaller OD) so that seems to be a logical conclusion.
Another thing i would like to see is...Does the new NFPJ bolt have a larger diameter firing pin than an older Knight bolt. Ive got a feeling they made the firing pin larger from some of the pics ive seen. My NULA leaves just a very small OD mark on the primer after firing and there is ZERO primer flow into the firing pin hole. This primer flow can make primer removal a PITA in a NFPJ setup. All of mine just fall out with Win209s in the Lehigh NFPJ and the anvils look fine even with max loads or a tad above.
