1st Muzzleloader connundrum... please help
 

Ive decided that I will be getting a muzzleloader. Rifle season in my town is shotgun/muzzleloader only.. and rather than get a slug gun and a muzzleloader, I'm just going to get a muzzleloader.

Ive narrowed my choices down to either the CVA Wolf (@$250 with a scope and the "all the junk you need" kit) or the Savage 10ML (@$350 used..)

I'm not sure that I totally need a scope, since most deer are within 50 yards here...

Is the savage a much better gun? should I just go with the Wolf? I know they will both go bang, I'm looking to buy it once, and use it forever, not buy it use it and upgrade...

Thanks in advance, ad

If you can get a Savage for $350 used in good condition you better grab it. Even if you dont like it, you should be able to resell it at a profit and its a very strong gun. A bit heavy for my tastes but rock solid. The "tupperware" stocks are a bit flimsy but there are many replacement options including some Boyds for under $100.

The Savage can also handle smokeless loads if you are comfortable using them. The 1-24 twist is also a plus in my book. On one of the other boards guys that convert their 50cals to 45cals often sell their old 50cal barrels for well under $100. Replacing the barrel on a Savage is fairly easy with the proper barrel nut wrench.

BTW if you dont take the Savage, i will buy it if you PM me the info and its in very good condition.

The savage is a good strong gun. Some like the Wolf but I prefer a bit more quality.
This time of year prices are down around here I don't know where you live but if your state laws allow smokeless you may want to consider that.
Look around you might find an Omega or a Triumph in good shape used.
Some things to look for if you buy used: check the bore carefully with a good light if its rusted up don't buy make sure the action and the safety work right **** it and push hard on the hammer if you can make it go off with out pulling the trigger its not safe. There are people out there that are the opposite of a good gunsmith that butcher trigger jobs and make guns unsafe.
The highest quality brands are TC, knight after that you have CVA and well I won't go there. If you have a muzzle loading club in the area you would benefit greatly by having some one show you the best ways to clean and load your gun there are little tricks to keep them working right in inclement weather. No matter what powder you use clean the gun and oil it before the day is over some powders are very corrosive and all powders burn hot enough to remove the protecting oil from the inside of the barrel.

You won't be sorry for buying the Wolf. I've been hunting and shooting guns for 60 years. I can afford the best guns made. I don't see the sense to it.

I just bought the new Wolf with Konus scope. I was beyond impressed with it. Fit and finish was perfect. Everything is tight and smooth. The trigger is crisp with no creep. The scope is as clear as any scope i've owned, and i've had Leupolds.

It shoots BH 209 with no alterations. Recoil is light compared to other inlines i've had.

The best and most important part is it shoots sub MOA @100yds. I'm willing to back that up for anyone who wants to see it. My load is 100gr BH 209, CCI 209M primer, and 250gr Thor bullet.

I see many deer and elk in this guns future.

We all have our opinion of quality, and mine is based on performance. Not what it costs.

People looking for entry level muzzle loaders at a good price, should look at the T/C impact or the CVA wolf. go to a local store and handle whatever it is your thinking of buying. Ray

Groan......

Always with the labels.

What makes a gun "entry level?"

Price, or quality?

If the Savage is in good condition, I'd jump on that deal. That's a very good price for a Savage. Like Gm54 said, you can buy it and re-sell it for a profit if you don't like it.

I do have a CVA Wolf, and it is a nice little carbine. It is a great short-range, tree stand/brush gun. I haven't had the chance to shoot it at longer ranges, but at 50 - 70 yards it is very accurate. My dad took a deer with it last year from a treestand at 35 yards. But the Savage is a better built, higher quality rifle, plus you can shoot smokeless from it....

IMO you can't go wrong with either one. Pick the one that feels the best to you.

If your plan is to sight it in when you get it, check the sights with a few shots before each season, and hunt with it two or three weekends each year, I would suggest the Wolf package with all the junk you need. It's a good rifle - simple, solid and accurate (and a heck of a lot easier carrying than the Savage).

well, the $350 savage was gone when I went to go check it out... Looks like it will be the Wolf. I'll probably wait a month or so and see what comes up between now and then...

I own a few muzzleloaders, both side locks and inlines, the CVA Wolf being one of them. It is a solid rifle and will shoot terrific groups at 100 yards. It should be all you'll ever need, but probably not all you'll ever want. I think it will make a great start to your collection by getting you off on the right foot.

Not that the Wolf is horrible, but I'd look at the T/C Impact also.

Actually both! i have shot a Wolf and it is in fact a entry level rifle as the T/C impact is also. both rifles function just fine. as i have said before i would purchase a Knight wolverine NIB, before i would either of the 2 rifles mentioned. why? overall quality,stock,barrel,trigger ETC is superior to both.does that mean the other 2 will not function and give years of service if taken care of ! nope.have i said the wolf is a nice entry level rifle in the past... absolutely.but it is what it is and nothing more old timer! Ray

I don't see it. My inlines include two Knights, Accura V2, Optima, Vortek UL, and the Omega.

It took me a little while to realize it, but the Wolf is every bit as good, and better than some of those guns.

What makes a gun good to me is how everything functions. How smooth is the action? How tight do the parts fit? How is the trigger?

The most important part is, how accurate is it?

The next thing is what was wrong with it? Did I need warranty work? Were the problems fixable, or do I have to live with the problem the gun has?

Maybe I got lucky, and got a better than average Wolf, but to me. The Wolf beats out the other guns.

I'm not even a fan of inline muzzleloaders. However, they are more practical than a sidelock for me at my age. I need a gun that's light, doesn't recoil, is accurate, and dependable.

I don't judge a gun by it's price tag. Some guns are a rip off, and some guns are a bargain. The Wolf is a huge bargain.

If a gun with a laminated stock and SS barrel make it a high quality gun? I'll pass. I think they're butt ugly. Performance is what should be important. Not a bunch of fluff that some guys are afraid to scratch. LOL

In my case. The Wolf is an entry level gun (your words), that i'll never have to advance from. You can do much better than a Bergara barrel. The Wolf has one, and it doesn't need to be SS, fluted, or even longer. It shoots just as good the way it is.

btw..The Omega was the worse gun in the bunch.

No one is bad mouthing a Wolf that I can see.

Your wolf has a Bergara Barrel? I thought only the upper end CVA's came with those.

All CVA barrels are made at the Bergara plant. They simply skip the multi honing process and therefore dont get stamped bergara. Its mainly to keep the cost down when you guy to buy. Both of my Optimas and even 2 of the wolfs we have, their bores look like they got the Bergara multi honing process due to the way they look inside.

MD are they a lower quality steel? Same thing and some just get a little more TLC?

Same barrels as the Bergara stamped. Just dont get the honey coating with the multi honing. The Wolf, Optima, Scout, and of course the Elkhorn, Buckhorn dont get the Bergara stamp. Keeps the cost lower.

I know they're not. I'm just not buying the "entry level".

Some guns are inexpensive, because of the quality. Frankly, it's what I was expecting when I bought mine. It was a pleasant surprise to see it's a damn nice gun.

Some guys who might be considering buying a Wolf might be turned off by the "entry level" label it gets on this forum.

I have nothing to gain by pushing the Wolf. I think it's a great gun at any price, and want to share that.

Ok, i've said enough about it. No more Wolf talk.

Except, I like it this much>-----> :arms:

Muley, I didn't know you were fluent in Wolf Talk. How do you say "I like how your butt smells" in Wolf? I was told it's Ooowoooll. But that doesn't seem right.

I have no comeback. :party0005:

Muley, that entry level was actually started by CVA and TC in advertising thats why some of us get a chuckle out of it.

I received a Wolf as a gift several years ago and find that it is just as good a gun as most of the higher priced ones on the market. A group of black powder enthusiasts regularly practice on our place and as of yet none of their more expensive guns have out performed the Wolf from the bench or off hand. Using 85 grains of RS and a 250 grain CVA Slick Load sabot I regularly hold one and a half three shot groups at 100 yards from the bench with open sights. In fact two of the guys have sold their expensive smoke poles and replaced them with a Wolf after shooting mine. I know it is considered an entry level gun but feel that it is all the gun most hunters need.

I have never owned a Wolf or a Savage. But if I had to choose one or the other, it would be the Wolf. Now before you climb on a high horse.. remember, I have 14 inline rifles. Add one more, and it will not be a special rifle, just one I shoot in succession. Now a Savage would be a great rifle, but I am not a fan of smokeless powders, and if all you are going to shoot out of the Savage is standard black/sub powders... the wolf could do the same thing for a cheaper cost.

Since the Savage is gone.. there is no harm checking out other rifles. The Wolf, Impact, Vortex, Optima, Omega, Triumph, just to name a few. If you're not so high tech motivated.. there are older styles that can be obtained for a good price and will shoot as well as any of them. For instance, these lucky dogs latching on to a MK85.. I hope they know what quality of rifle they got for such a cheap price.

I have a Black Diamond XR. To find a better shooting rifle would be hard. But people avoid that rifle because it is probably one of the most filthy to shoot rifles there is. BUt if a little extra cleaning don't bother you, I could have had one of them for only $120.00. I waited one day to long and it disappeared.

So look around. Unless you have your heart set on a certain model.

well, I popped in to check out some guns today... lo and behold there was another savage ML10. $335... so its hanging out on hold for me....

Excellent choice. :woot:

A muzzleloader shooting smokeless powder makes no sense to me.

It's not legal in ML season, and if you hunt the rifle season. Why not just shoot a CF rifle?

A muzzleloader shooting smokeless makes alot of sense to me.

It is legal in the state I hunt. It's loaded from the muzzle and is considered a muzzleloader. I hunt where CF rifles are not legal.

After building my 1st smokeless muzzleloader and firing the first shot I asked myself, "Why did I not do this sooner?"

With a 120gr charge in lets say my .45 Knight DISC Elite shooting a 200gr SST I can get it going close to 2300fps. Using the same bullet and my smokeless .45 with a safe powder charge its travelling close to 2700fps. This makes my drop from 100-200yds only a few inches if sighted in an inch high. Recoil is also milder IMO which makes for a very nice range session.

What one chooses to hunt with is his or her personal preference if the weapon of choice is legal. The smokeless guns will all shoot subs also so its its the best of both worlds IMO. I choose to only shoot smokeless out of mine. Clean up is one patch if I feel like cleaning it. I have yet to have a misfire in mine. The Savage breech plug is a great design IMO. Flash channel is 5/32 with hardly any primer shelf and a replaceable vent liner.

This was shot on my 2nd range trip at 100yds with 200gr SST's travelling around 2600fps. It will only get better once I tweek the powder charge. I wish the origional poster the best of luck!

You got really lucky IMO.

Like i said its heavy but if you dont mind the weight, you now have a platform that can fill many roles. Its very reliable with BH209 if you choose to avoid smokeless. There are plenty of smokeless loads though that make equal or even less pressure than subs but more fps.

I advise going that route when you are comfortable using it and have done your research. I would stick with BH209 though until you are very familiar with the gun and the basics. BH209 has some similar properties as smokeless and will get you on a quicker learning curve IMO and it can handle any load you can handle.

Savage barrels are tested to over 100K psi, actually closer to 130psi. The co inventor is a current US Army sniper and he has done some pretty crazy things with the Savage in the past.

There is quite a bit of aftermarket too from triggers to stocks to barrels ect ect. Many parts that fit a Savage short action are interchangeable. Its a rifle that can really grow with your needs or wants....as long as you dont want a brush gun. :P

I should have worded it like this.