When does it become overkill?
 

I'm thinking about selling couple guns to get a Mountaineer. I keep going back and forth about whether or not this is a good idea. I don't need one. Furthermore, I can't hunt with a scope so it's not like I will be able to use it in a way that it can live up to it's abilities.
At what point do you just decide to be happy with what you have?

Easy... when you are really broke and retired!

SuperKirby, the answer to your question is at the very end of this video. (Turn your sound on.)

http://www.wimp.com/backbox/

Kirby - I keep asking myself that same question. When is enough - enough? I know I have something that will take everything from mice to mammoths. And for most of us, it doesn't come down to what we need and sometimes even what we want. I have found myself walking into a gun shop and see a gun there that I begin to fondle. Be it a shotgun, rilfe, muzzleloader or handgun. The next thing I know I am taking it home with me like a new found treasure. I guess the best thing to do is whatever your conscience tells you.

i have my 2 Optimas and right now i am very happy with just the 2.

I sold off several guns over the last two years. Saved a little bit here and there. And now have enough for that TVM .54 Southern Mountain flintlock I had convinced myself that I couldn't live without. Now I find I'm asking myself "WHY?".

Could I possibly enjoy it more than the eight sidelocks and two in-lines I already have? I have so many powder & bullet combinations I want to try in those that I'll never get around to them all. What would I ever do with another one?

Guess I'll have to ask Cayugad. :s2::s2:

Well I think its different for everyone of us. For me it came down to the point I was gun poor. Had all these guns but not enough money for the ammunition for them and also I just didn't shoot them. So I sat down and thought long and hard. Which ones have a personal attachment to it? Needless to say I cut my gun collection in half. Now the ones that i have I can enjoy them even more AND buy ammuntion for them. But each is different. I still have a total of eleven guns. Which for some that is alot.

For myself I quite by accident ran across a picture of a flintlock rifle built by Larry Gardener. It came upon me that a fellow shouldn't go under without owning one of his rifles been waiting awhile,it will be here in about 10 weeks. I may not be able to take it with me but I intend to shoot it a lot while I'm here.

Collecting to me is a hobby. Everyone needs a hobby. And if it brings you pleasure, then there is nothing more to concern yourself with. As long as the hobby does not infringe on your life style.

My bank account tells me it's enough.

Like it just told me.

It's like any other addiction, one needs to learn to control it and ask themselves if another rifle is truly necessary. Ray

And then buy it anyway! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Several interesting lines of thought. I think I'm torn between collecting and having more than I can afford to shoot. I have at least 16 and I think more than that. I don't need that many. I know I can't shoot that many. Honestly I'm not sure I really want that many. Probably half of them were given to me. I enjoy the process of finding one and then convincing myself how much I need it, researching it, and finally finding the best deal and getting it. But I also know how much time I have with a 2 and 3 year old. Just not sure where to draw the line.

But i thought u wernt married? :poke:

I owe you a fish slap.

I have only one. It is all I need and all I want. To fondle another weapon in a gun store is nice, but I always leave them there. If I decide I want a new one I will sell the one I have and then get the new one. Also I am 70 and retired so I cannot afford a bunch of guns anymore.

I just bought a second gun safe to house the muzzleloaders that were sitting in boxes and gun cases around the room. In time if I need to get another safe, I will. I could not possibly sell any of them. I am a gun owner, not a trader ar salesman. I just hope they all go to a good home and are well taken care of when I go. My very first Inline that I purchased is a Brolin Arms plunger style .50 caliber. I haven't shot it since I harvested a deer with it about 3 years ago. But you know what? I'm dying to get it out and try some of the new bullets and sabots I just got. The gun only cost me $90.00 brand new. I love the gun and the memories it holds and I could not, nor would not ever part with it.
And besides, overkill to me is shooting a 60 pound doe with a 555 grain maxi ball from a .58 cal. muzzleloader, and has nothing to do with how many guns you have.

I worked in the firearms industry for many years. so Iwas lucky and bought alot of rifles(for some pretty good prices). And I have a fantastic collection of quality collector firearms. However those are ina vault, and I consider them my retirement policy. But now that I am retired I have a little more money so I do not need to sell them. But they are there if I need them. And they will make a good inheritance.

However for my personal use I had a bunch of different rifles. Then I decided that it was time to upgrade what I have. So I can either shoot a Cooper or Kimber 22 LR, or a Savage or Remington?? So I decided I was going to upgrade myself to a few firearms of top notch quality, and get rid of all the medium qualtiy rifles in order to pay for the better rifles. And that is what I did.

I had dozens of MZ's. But I sold most and have taken myself down to just a few top quality rifles like my Long Range Hunter, and the rifle spoken of above-a custom TVM-FL.

Since I have cut my inventory down, and raised the quality level substantially, I have been happy with that decision.

So I think it is just stages you go through in life. And some poeple go through those stages differently. Personally I would rather have one top quality MZ over 10 $150 rifles. But that is just what I like to do. So it really depends on what you want to do.

And what other people think really does not enter into the equation. It really doesn't matter to me if a guy thinks I am nuts to pay $1500 for a custom MZ. That is my business, not his. Tom.

Going to have to agree with you HEAD. Better to have a few high quality rifles then alot of medium quality guns. Just a thing that is each to his own. Honestly if I could lower my collection down from eleven I would. BUT I just cant to it, the rest of my guns have too much personal attachement to.

At 50 yards or so, which is the distance the majority of my shots at deer are taken, I can harvest a deer with my $90.00 Brolin Arms .50 cal. as well as anyone can with a $1,500.00 muzzleloader. That's not to say I wouldn't like to have a $1,500.00 muzzleloader, there's just no way I could get myself to pay that much for a rifle. Here is one other point, when it's pouring down rain, am I going to take an expensive rifle out hunting, or am I going to take an inexpensive one? I think I'll take my $20.00 Bobcat, or if I want to use a scope, my $90.00 Brolin Arms and not worry, too much, about them getting soaking wet.

No such thing as overkill when it comes to owning guns.it's simply a progression from gun owner to gun collector.and I never met a gun collector yet who had to many guns.:patriot:

For me its nice to have a bunch of them to tinker with. I gave up smoking ten years ago and I don't go to the bars or any other real bad habits. When I have extra jingle in my pocket I usually buy one and lighten my load.

Well, it seems as though this thread is going to drift a little. But what the heck. No one is shooting much right now. Everyone's bored and looking for something to talk about, and this is a good topic to play around with.


So, what is "high quality" when it comes to guns? What makes a gun "medium" or "low" quality?


I think it depends on how you want to define "quality". If quality is measured by accuracy, dependability and durability, there are a lot of high quality guns out there. Some are quite inexpensive and many of them would be considered "cheap" or at least "inexpensive" so far as cost goes.

Consider the lowly CVA Wolf. Is it accurate, dependable and durable? Sure seems to be. I can think of nothing more accurate, dependable and durable than my TC Renegades. Twenty years ago TC Renegades and Hawkens were THE high quality muzzleloaders.

On the other hand, if quality is defined by aesthetics (fit, finish, style, elegance?) you can't help but run in to the problem of personal taste. I suspect almost all of us on this forum would agree that a custom made flint longrifle is mighty pretty, and would probably think of it as a high quality gun (even though a CVA Wolf may outshoot it all day long). Some guys find a fully camo patterned in-line with a thumbhole synthetic stock gun a thing of beauty. Yet, not all of us would agree on that. But we would all agree that it's accurate, dependable and durable.

So, what makes a "high quality" gun in your mind?

Almost all of my guns I bought used. I know that pitted bores can shoot good but for me a good clean bore is a must for me to say it is a quality gun. Other than that, beauty and fit are measured by the individual user. Most all guns these days are pretty high quality I'd guess.

A quality gun is made of high quality materials machined to close tolerances is capable of lasting a life time and provides consistent accuracy through out its life time with decent care.
Aesthetics is important but a different question, and changes with the person.

I own a couple of what I would consider low quality muzzleloaders. There are two of them that are hard to get anything to shoot well out of them. Yet a couple of them, while their stock to barrel fit is poor, they are very good shooters. But I would not call them quality.

Also I never take cost into the overall question. I have some rather cheap rifles that I feel are very high quality, and they shoot like it. But like Lee said... if you really look at them, would they last a life time and be something you'd pass down?

That is actually a pretty easy question to answer. It is not really subjectice. But is actually more factual. High quality can be broken down into 3 basic categories.

1. Quality of hand craftsmanship of the builder.
a. Wood to metal fit(not for asthetics, but for firearm tightness).
b. Bedding of the action, and barrel.
c. Fitting the stock exactly to the shooter.
d. Hand picking the strongest components, and fitting those components.
e. All the other things(too numerous to mention) a builder does.

2. Quality of Materials.
a. Buying the best hand made barrel.
b. Buying a swamped barrel for better sight picture and handling.
c. Quality trigger.
d. Quality lock.
e. Quality acccessories.........and on and on................
f. NO PLASTIC

3. Aesthetics.
a. Pride of ownership.
b. Beautiful craftsmanship, and metal to wood fit.
c. Beautiful wood, or top notch synthetics if synthetics is your thing.
d. NO PLASTIC
e. All strong metal parts, with a nice finish.

I did not address accuracy for one reason. Accuracy is a result. Not something you can jut add into a rifle. And with the proper build then you can bet accuracy is there. However the accuracy that is there is the important accuracy. And that is the accuracy and dependability needed when the shot is on the line at a nice buck or a big fat doe. Alot of rifles shoot accurately off the bench. But can the hunter shoot the rifle accurately in field conditions?? That is the real test. And a hand built rifle that was built exactly for the user will be more accurate than a guy who just picks up a different rifle to hunt with everyday off the shelf. If you know and shoot that one custom rifle all the time you will become an expert with that one piece of equipment when it counts(not on the bench-who cares about bench groups-NOT ME). Field accuracy is what I care about.

The best part. Is Pride of Ownership. And that is a very important part of it. Not because you want to show it off, although you probably will. But because you will truly be better with that weapon. I really belive that. That is how it has worked for me. Tom.

The Mountaineer is easily the best production ML i ever owned. And yes, it's better then all my Elite's. Wow, that was very hard to say.:wave:

Good quality materials is the key for me.



BTW-I've been shooting pretty often lately to tell you the truth. Or i should say someone shooting for me.:guiness:

I think a lot of it does come down to personal preference. Sure, some guns are better than other, and in general some brands are better than others. CVA has started turning out a pretty good gun, but personally I won't own one solely because of where they're made. Of all the things I'm going to buy, my guns are the one thing that I'm particular about being made in America.
My Pro Hunter is certainly a high quality gun. As are my Disc Extreme and my KRB7. There's a lot of things I like about all of them and a few things I dislike about each of them as well.
To me personally at this stage in my life I have no use for a custom flinter.
I think my problem is I don't have anywhere near as much time to shoot as I would like to. But I still like guns a lot. So if I can't shoot a gun then I like to tinker with them. When I run out of free cash to tinker with then I find a reason to sell or trade the gun and get something different. I think that's where I'm at now. Not that I really dislike the Pro Hunter, just that selling it and getting the Mountaineer gives me something new to do and play with.
I think I will keep the Pro Hunter and hopefully in the next year or two I be able to get a barrel or two for it and maybe a custom stock.

This'n will do all that i need her to do and do it gracefully :rock:


Doesn't matter how much you pay for something, a turd will always slip into the bunch and cause that person to hate the entire brand while others love it.

All things will end up breaking in one way or the other, its just a matter of when.

The single most important thing in killing game is the hunter. The gun only needs to be good enough to put a bullet in the killing zone.

The rest is all fluff.

Hear tell there is a place out in the Colorado Rockies where this isn't true. The laws of Physics seem to be different there.

There is a fella there that drills the flash hole of lhis breech plugs out to 0.035". Once this is done, he has written more than once on more than one forum, the flash hole grows no larger even after thousands of shots. Anywhere else in the Universe, flash holes grow with each shot i.e. they 'break', or wear or whatever. All things breaking or wearing out, is because 'entropy' increases everywhere. This is a universal law of physics. However, there seems to be an anomaly of the universal law, in the Rockies of Colorado, where flash holes stay at 0.035" for thousands of shots. Perhaps some physicist will one day, win the Nobel Prize when he/she studies this place in the Rockies, where entropy doesn't increase; the only place in the universe where it doesn't.

oh im sure they will open up some time, they just havent done it yet. For the average shooter, they will last a life time.

That's because we're special. :p

And probably rode on a "special" bus to a "special" school. :s2::s2::s2:

In Minnesota all orifices get larger with use. :rolleye0011::rolleye0011: Nuttin special about us I guess. :(

School?? :confused:

That lil yellow bus is called the (SHORT BUS) where i come from. no explanation should be needed

Especially with football season feeling like an eternity away.

Yep, like many things firearms can be judged both objectively and subjectively.

With modern manufacturing techniques firearms are probably a lot safer, more accurate, dependable and lighter today than they were 100+ years ago.