No such thing as overkill when it comes to owning guns.it's simply a progression from gun owner to gun collector.and I never met a gun collector yet who had to many guns.

For me its nice to have a bunch of them to tinker with. I gave up smoking ten years ago and I don't go to the bars or any other real bad habits. When I have extra jingle in my pocket I usually buy one and lighten my load.

Well, it seems as though this thread is going to drift a little. But what the heck. No one is shooting much right now. Everyone's bored and looking for something to talk about, and this is a good topic to play around with.


So, what is "high quality" when it comes to guns? What makes a gun "medium" or "low" quality?


I think it depends on how you want to define "quality". If quality is measured by accuracy, dependability and durability, there are a lot of high quality guns out there. Some are quite inexpensive and many of them would be considered "cheap" or at least "inexpensive" so far as cost goes.

Consider the lowly CVA Wolf. Is it accurate, dependable and durable? Sure seems to be. I can think of nothing more accurate, dependable and durable than my TC Renegades. Twenty years ago TC Renegades and Hawkens were THE high quality muzzleloaders.

On the other hand, if quality is defined by aesthetics (fit, finish, style, elegance?) you can't help but run in to the problem of personal taste. I suspect almost all of us on this forum would agree that a custom made flint longrifle is mighty pretty, and would probably think of it as a high quality gun (even though a CVA Wolf may outshoot it all day long). Some guys find a fully camo patterned in-line with a thumbhole synthetic stock gun a thing of beauty. Yet, not all of us would agree on that. But we would all agree that it's accurate, dependable and durable.

So, what makes a "high quality" gun in your mind?

Almost all of my guns I bought used. I know that pitted bores can shoot good but for me a good clean bore is a must for me to say it is a quality gun. Other than that, beauty and fit are measured by the individual user. Most all guns these days are pretty high quality I'd guess.

A quality gun is made of high quality materials machined to close tolerances is capable of lasting a life time and provides consistent accuracy through out its life time with decent care.
Aesthetics is important but a different question, and changes with the person.

I own a couple of what I would consider low quality muzzleloaders. There are two of them that are hard to get anything to shoot well out of them. Yet a couple of them, while their stock to barrel fit is poor, they are very good shooters. But I would not call them quality.

Also I never take cost into the overall question. I have some rather cheap rifles that I feel are very high quality, and they shoot like it. But like Lee said... if you really look at them, would they last a life time and be something you'd pass down?

That is actually a pretty easy question to answer. It is not really subjectice. But is actually more factual. High quality can be broken down into 3 basic categories.

1. Quality of hand craftsmanship of the builder.
a. Wood to metal fit(not for asthetics, but for firearm tightness).
b. Bedding of the action, and barrel.
c. Fitting the stock exactly to the shooter.
d. Hand picking the strongest components, and fitting those components.
e. All the other things(too numerous to mention) a builder does.

2. Quality of Materials.
a. Buying the best hand made barrel.
b. Buying a swamped barrel for better sight picture and handling.
c. Quality trigger.
d. Quality lock.
e. Quality acccessories.........and on and on................
f. NO PLASTIC

3. Aesthetics.
a. Pride of ownership.
b. Beautiful craftsmanship, and metal to wood fit.
c. Beautiful wood, or top notch synthetics if synthetics is your thing.
d. NO PLASTIC
e. All strong metal parts, with a nice finish.

I did not address accuracy for one reason. Accuracy is a result. Not something you can jut add into a rifle. And with the proper build then you can bet accuracy is there. However the accuracy that is there is the important accuracy. And that is the accuracy and dependability needed when the shot is on the line at a nice buck or a big fat doe. Alot of rifles shoot accurately off the bench. But can the hunter shoot the rifle accurately in field conditions?? That is the real test. And a hand built rifle that was built exactly for the user will be more accurate than a guy who just picks up a different rifle to hunt with everyday off the shelf. If you know and shoot that one custom rifle all the time you will become an expert with that one piece of equipment when it counts(not on the bench-who cares about bench groups-NOT ME). Field accuracy is what I care about.

The best part. Is Pride of Ownership. And that is a very important part of it. Not because you want to show it off, although you probably will. But because you will truly be better with that weapon. I really belive that. That is how it has worked for me. Tom.

The Mountaineer is easily the best production ML i ever owned. And yes, it's better then all my Elite's. Wow, that was very hard to say.

Good quality materials is the key for me.



BTW-I've been shooting pretty often lately to tell you the truth. Or i should say someone shooting for me.

I think a lot of it does come down to personal preference. Sure, some guns are better than other, and in general some brands are better than others. CVA has started turning out a pretty good gun, but personally I won't own one solely because of where they're made. Of all the things I'm going to buy, my guns are the one thing that I'm particular about being made in America.
My Pro Hunter is certainly a high quality gun. As are my Disc Extreme and my KRB7. There's a lot of things I like about all of them and a few things I dislike about each of them as well.
To me personally at this stage in my life I have no use for a custom flinter.
I think my problem is I don't have anywhere near as much time to shoot as I would like to. But I still like guns a lot. So if I can't shoot a gun then I like to tinker with them. When I run out of free cash to tinker with then I find a reason to sell or trade the gun and get something different. I think that's where I'm at now. Not that I really dislike the Pro Hunter, just that selling it and getting the Mountaineer gives me something new to do and play with.
I think I will keep the Pro Hunter and hopefully in the next year or two I be able to get a barrel or two for it and maybe a custom stock.