Why did Knight
04-15-2011, 06:00 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,037
I think there are enough people to make up substantial share of the market that will not buy a rifle without open sights on it. The reason Knight dropped the elite was simple, it didn't sell well enough.
I never figured out why they didn't just put the open sights on that design. I have seen many people post that the barrel is too thin at the crown end to drill for open sights but that just not true.
My earliest Knight rifle is an mk-85 that was made before Knight moved their operations to Iowa. The barrel on that rifle is contoured just as much as my disc elite and it has a front sight. The outside diameter of the barrel is .800 at the end. The rifle I am referring to is the middle one in this picture. It has a lothar walther barrel and although it has a slightly slower twist, (1 in 32 inch),
it is a great shooter.
Art
I never figured out why they didn't just put the open sights on that design. I have seen many people post that the barrel is too thin at the crown end to drill for open sights but that just not true.
My earliest Knight rifle is an mk-85 that was made before Knight moved their operations to Iowa. The barrel on that rifle is contoured just as much as my disc elite and it has a front sight. The outside diameter of the barrel is .800 at the end. The rifle I am referring to is the middle one in this picture. It has a lothar walther barrel and although it has a slightly slower twist, (1 in 32 inch),
it is a great shooter.
Art
Last edited by flounder33; 04-15-2011 at 06:24 AM.
04-15-2011, 06:16 AM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,605
Im still hoping they take another look at a 1-24 twist 45cal. It looks like one of my motorcycles is being sold and now i will have some more play money. 
If they are going to float the barrel though i would strongly prefer an additional lug and mounting screw near the rear of the action. This should be a very simple modification for a smith and IIRC the LRH is just a tiny bit longer at the rear. Maybe even enough room to clear the trigger assembly and add another lug/mounting point.
I may try this before my LRH project is done.
Offer a 40-220gr Barnes type bullet and you should have a real long range 45cal. Add a more conventional jacketed lead 235-250gr 40cal and you can easily go out a bit further depending on the shooters skill level.
grizzly 2
BTW the LRH has the same recoil lug as an Elite, so its not really gone. Basically only the barrel contour instead of fluting are different. My LRH barreled action dropped right into 2 Elite stocks and a modded Extreme TH stock with full length bedding.
If they are going to float the barrel though i would strongly prefer an additional lug and mounting screw near the rear of the action. This should be a very simple modification for a smith and IIRC the LRH is just a tiny bit longer at the rear. Maybe even enough room to clear the trigger assembly and add another lug/mounting point.
I may try this before my LRH project is done.
Offer a 40-220gr Barnes type bullet and you should have a real long range 45cal. Add a more conventional jacketed lead 235-250gr 40cal and you can easily go out a bit further depending on the shooters skill level.
grizzly 2
BTW the LRH has the same recoil lug as an Elite, so its not really gone. Basically only the barrel contour instead of fluting are different. My LRH barreled action dropped right into 2 Elite stocks and a modded Extreme TH stock with full length bedding.
04-15-2011, 06:35 AM
#5
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Portage, Wi.
Posts: 316
gm, I was thinking the same thing, I got a .45 Elite that I'm taking to a friend of mine to do a laminated Th stock for it and I'm hoping I can get him to do a rear recoil lug for it. This gun smith builds long range centerfire rifles and also has built guns for the US Olympic shooters. When I called him with my idea he seamed very interested, he's never done a stock for a ML but said he is looking forward to the project. The stock is from BOYD and is un inlet ted TH with vents already in it and is 3" in the front.
04-15-2011, 06:50 AM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
The new rifles will be floated and the new Mountaineer and the LRH will both have the forked recoil lug. I would really like to also say they are accurized to the stock but - i am not sure of that as I do not have either one of them.
So in that same thought i have a question? I long ago quit using wood stocks so I have lost touch with a lot of information. but back then i would full length glass bed each rifle in the stock because weather-temperature would cause a wood stock move and change POI. What about wood laminate stocks? Do they move as did the older wood stocks?
I know the rhought of 'floating' developed back when wood was real popular as a cost cutting measure - but at the time they did not have laminate stocks...
The lack of the 'contour' does not seem to be a significant factor for myself as the fluting reduces the weight about the same factor as the 'contour' barrel + add better cooling and a more ridgid barrel reducing harmonics.
Iron sights are needed by some, wanted by others and can sometimes be handy + if you do not want them take them off and plug the holes.
Just thoughts from the out back..
04-15-2011, 06:56 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,037
Laminated stocks are both stronger and more dimensionally stable. They will still "move" if subjected to extreme moisture swings.
I have always thought that one of the reasons to "float" a barrel is that the barrel itself expands when it heats up and could cause a change in poi because it creates some pressure at the end of the barrel.
I have always thought that one of the reasons to "float" a barrel is that the barrel itself expands when it heats up and could cause a change in poi because it creates some pressure at the end of the barrel.
04-15-2011, 07:31 AM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
[quote=flounder33;3798804]Laminated stocks are both stronger and more dimensionally stable. They will still "move" if subjected to extreme moisture swings.
I have always thought that one of the reasons to "float" a barrel is that the barrel itself expands when it heats up and could cause a change in poi because it creates some pressure at the end of the barrel.[/quote]
You are correct.... the heating barrel really isn't the problem... the heat that is transferred from the barrel to the wood is the cause of the problem. If the wood were were equal density all along the barrel channel the expansion of the wood would not be as big a problem because it would move the barrel equally along with the sights so things would be fine. As it is heating regular wood created more pressure against the barrel in some spots than other getting un-equal pressures on the barrel causing a real shift in POI.
With a full length glass bedded barrel, the barrel rides in the glass and the glass is heated uniformally. Plus the glass is much more heat resistant so it reacts much slower to heat or cold.
Todays point bedding systems even do a better jog of stabilizing the stock to the barrel and are even less affected by temperatures.
I doubt you would ever find a professional long range shooter with a floated barrel, with a floated barrel even the ambient temperature of the air can cause a shift in POI. Normally we as hunters do not even worry about that one...
I have always thought that one of the reasons to "float" a barrel is that the barrel itself expands when it heats up and could cause a change in poi because it creates some pressure at the end of the barrel.[/quote]
You are correct.... the heating barrel really isn't the problem... the heat that is transferred from the barrel to the wood is the cause of the problem. If the wood were were equal density all along the barrel channel the expansion of the wood would not be as big a problem because it would move the barrel equally along with the sights so things would be fine. As it is heating regular wood created more pressure against the barrel in some spots than other getting un-equal pressures on the barrel causing a real shift in POI.
With a full length glass bedded barrel, the barrel rides in the glass and the glass is heated uniformally. Plus the glass is much more heat resistant so it reacts much slower to heat or cold.
Todays point bedding systems even do a better jog of stabilizing the stock to the barrel and are even less affected by temperatures.
I doubt you would ever find a professional long range shooter with a floated barrel, with a floated barrel even the ambient temperature of the air can cause a shift in POI. Normally we as hunters do not even worry about that one...
