Well, yes and know....with a conical I can see two different problems that might rear their heads...

1. the length of the bullet is going to require a faster twist to stabilize that long og a projectile. I think that people are areasy shooting the long Bull Shop from a 1/28 it is just a matter of achieving the velocity the twist needs to stabilize. I think we all know the 1/24 does the best overall job of providing stabilization to longer bullets.

You mention the 1/20 twist and I am not so sure that might not be to fast for a long lead conical. The general rule is that if you under-stabilize a projectile accuracy goes to pot... and theoretically there is no such thing as over-stablization - but I think there really is... and that is part 2

2. bullet consruction can really effect stabilization. If shot from a twist to fast the bullet is set to spin so fast that imperfections in the bullets contruction will be magnified and 'wobble' induced by the spin will appear.... causing a loss of accuracy

Just running off - so if your thoughts differ - go fer it... I certainly do not know it all like another on this site...

Thanks for the suggestion. Ummm but that's a lot more than I
want as far as recoil is concerned lol. I agree that would rock on
both ends. I'll look for something in the low 300's. Shouldn't be
to brutal on the shoulder.

Mike i think somewhere we got wires crossed lol..45 cal 1;20's shoot big lead .460/.488 real well long conicals lol. .45 cal 1:30 shoot mid weight conicals 300-400 even 350's real well. where does that leave the .45 cal 1:28..and what is you opinion on the 1:28 and conicals.. sorry for confusion.. after shooting the wolverine .50 cal today with .460 NE, i know the 1:28 can do well with a good fitting conical in 1:28. Ray

this is a good example of a mid weight 340 gr conical from a .45 cal 1:30. and i have seem some excelent results from cayugad with his .45 cal 1:20 twist white with .488 gr conicals. Green mountain barrels site list the .45 replacement barrel in the title as 1:30 and on the item as a 1:28 lol. i am confused. so what do you think would be the difference between a .45 cal 1:28 VS 1:30?http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...their-45s.html i might also ad CVA .45's are 1:28 now. Ray

No I do not think so - I understood that you thought the 1/20 might be a great big conical gun but I am not sure of that because lead conicals can develope 'wobble', do to rotating to fast, much easier than a copper lead manufactured bullet.

I am not sure there was a confusion, I believe that the 1/28 could shoot the LONG conicals better than the 1/20 because of over-spin.

I have in the past shot long conicals...50 cal, very well from 1/24 - 1/28 - 1/48 - I have no experience with the faster 1/20 twist rate, but form the reading I have done - I am not sure it would work with a lead conical - but I do not know that.

Correct because the 1/28 or even the 1/24 does not induce over spin or over stabilization with the charges that we shoot heavy conicals with. It is my estimation that a 1/20 would unless you backed way down on the charge...

Here is an clipping of what I am trying to say....

A term we often hear is "over-stabilization" of the bullet. This doesn’t happen. Either a bullet is stable or it isn’t. Too little twist will not stabilize the bullet, while too much twist, with a couple of exceptions, does little harm. Faster than optimum twists tend to exaggerate errors in bullet concentricity and may cause wobble. The faster twist also causes the bullet to spin at higher rpm, which can cause bullet blowup or disintegration because of the high centrifugal forces generated. For example, the .220 Swift, at 4,000 fps., spins the 50-grain bullet at 240,000 rpm.

I think we are talking the same point - but I am disagreeing with the 1/20 concept and a lead conical unless it is awfulwell built....

White .rifles made for big lead.my undestanding is 45 cal 1:20/ .50 cal 1:24. both designed for big lead conicals. after reading up on all of this stuff lol and seeing some of cayugads scary accurate results with a .451 white rifle and 488 gr conical.and the reviews on the no excuse web site and the results his customers get with the .45 cal whites and a 460 NE bullet. when i spoke to the gentleman from NE he told me the .45 cal rifles were getting better accuracy than the .50 cals. he shoots one himself.one thing i do know is the range of bullets with the 1:20 is very limited.no matter,what i really wanted to know originally are the GMB replacement .45 cal barrels 1:28 or 1:30,since reading the information on there site. i don't think they know lol.. Ray

Can you say OUCH!!!!

OUCH! is exactly what a buck said a few years back.... I made a terrible shot on him high in the spine just forward of the rump... But when it hit it knocked the buck down and on his way down he turned his head and tried to bite the entrance hole (actually mess)... i am sure he was saying ouch at the same time...

If the Whites 45's a 1/20 - nuff said... they won the Manufactures Trophy the last time White competed - they shot .451's.

Actually it was a .368 cal rifle. From Doc's site......


"White had been participating in the National Muzzleloading Manufacturer's Match in Friendship, Indiana, put on by the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association since 2000. The original concept was to shoot commonly available muzzleloading target rifles in competition at paper and steel target from 25 to 150 yards. Tuning was allowed but only what an ordinary hunter might do to his hunting rifle. It soon became obvious that the various companies were doing far more than that, with special barrels, and bullets and the best of shooters. White tried competing with off the shelf rifles but their amatuer shooters usually lost badly to other more sophisticated teams. In 2007, I was approached by a group who saw the potential in the White System. As a consequence, we (the team and I) designed a .368 caliber rifle that I called the Varminter, designed for slow, meticulous shooting at small game or target. The team won that year, 2007, beating all old records for team and individual shooting by a substantial margin. Our best shooter only lost 9 points out of 300 for the match. The performance was so astounding that the match disappeared. Nobody wanted to come back to face that kind of competition. I was personally disappointed that the other companies did not rise to meet the competition."