just got omega
 

Hey I just bought a new Thomson Center Omega yesterday from cabelas. But now have some questions, to those who have this gun. How much powder have u found works best, and or pellets? Also a scope I was thinking a 3x9x40 but not trying to spend over 300. Any help would be great. Now I just gottaa wait til november to hunt with it!!

RedNeckSape, I shoot a T/C Triumph and T/C Black Diamond and my results are similiar to some of the guys who have the Omegas.

My load combos are pretty much standard-issue but work great for me. I use Triple Seven ffg loose powder(100-110 grains). Winchester Triple Seven 209 primers. 250 grain Shockwave or Hornady SST(50 cal. sabot/45 cal. bullet combo). I'm getting good 3-5 shot groups with this set-up: 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards average with 1 1/4 inch groups not uncommon. I have also tried a few of the 200 grain Shockwaves with even better accuracy(3/4 inch at 100 yds.) and looking forward to testing more of them.

The T/C U-View clear powder measure works great with loose powder.

Check out Warne Maxima scope rings and Warne 1-piece base for scope mounting

There are a heckuva lot of good scopes out there for up to $300.00. Four scopes i have heard good things about in the $200-$300 range:

Bushnell Elite 3200
Burris Fullfield 2
Nikon Omega
Leupold Ultimate Slam

Look at swfa.com or opticsplanet.com for good deals on scopes if you don't have anything local. GOOD LUCK

I have a .50 and .45 Omega. Both are excellent shooters.

First thing before taking it to the range and firing it is to give the bore a good cleaning. I tight patch with Hoppes or oil of your choice ran down the bore will remove whatever TC puts in the bore for protection. If not removed it will fire harden and make clean up a pain. I personally use JB Bore Conditioner on my TC barrels (new or used) as they are normally tight and this helps smooth the bore for reduced loading pressure. JB is non embedding and will not hurt accuracy.

What works for me in the .50 Omega is a .452 250gr Speer Deep Curls in a Harvester crushed rib sabot, 100-110gr by volume of Blackhorn 209 ignited by a Federal 209A primer. This load results in cloverleafs at 100yds and leaves nice holes in the target. Another choice is Harvester's 260-300gr Scorpion PT bullet with crushed rib sabot using the same charge and primer. After each range session clean the bore and use a 1/8" drill bit spun by hand to remove built up carbon from the breech plugs fire channel.

I have been putting Dednutz DNZ scope mounts on my TC's and have found they work great. As far as scopes there are many out there that are great for under $300.00. I have 3 muzzleloader specific scopes, Leatherwood TBML 3-9x40, Nikon BDC 250, and Bushnell Trophy DOA 250. Out of the three i really like the Bushnell. If its a rifle scope you want on there they will work just fine as I have a 4.5-14x40 Leupold on my .50 Omega.

As far as powder I stick with Blackhorn 209 however if you wish to use Triple 7 2F loose powder of pellets it will require swabbing between shots.

Have fun with your new gun!!

I got my first muzzloader this past season and it was also an Omega. Is yours a synthetic stock or the laminate thumbhole stock? Depending on your answer, there may be a thread or two by Sabotloader you might want to review (there may be some stock modification required if you are getting a synthetic).

I have had good success with the following:

• 260 gr Harvester Scorpion PT Gold bullets w/ Harvester black crush rib sabot, 90 gr BH209, CCI 209M Primer – I get 1 MOA with this setup. However, I’m going to do some more experimenting with an increase in powder charge and using the RED crush rib sabot, which is designed for use with smokeless powder (since it has a nitrocellulose base, BH209 is widely considered to be smokeless powder with the smoke added). I’ll eventually try the 300 gr PT Gold bullet when I have enough coin to do so. As far as terminal performance goes, I killed a buck at 150 yards and he only went about 10 yards and had a massive blood trail. The shot was right where I put it, too.
• Leopold Ultimate Slam 3-9x40 scope mounted on the DNZ (Dead Nutz) Game Reaper low one-piece mount/rings (HIGHLY recommend the DNZ!!)
• SpinJag loader and starter (also HIGHLY recommend those products).

I have had good success cleaning the BH209 with Hoppe’s, Gunzilla, and Blue Wonder solvents. If you use BH209, you’ll need to keep the carbon build up in your breech plug’s flash channel at bay with a 1/8” drill bit (twist by hand or use variable speed drill SLOWLY). I also use XF7 lubricant (grease) on the breech plug and I have never had any difficulty removing it.

My Omega was a bit sporadic at first, but I feel 95% confident that it was because the barrel was a little rough around the edges. I took some 0000 steel wool and wrapped it around a cleaning jag and, with the use of some solvent, did about 50 passes down the barrel. The gun has not been sporadic since. Some use JB’s bore paste to accomplish this. I just didn’t have access to any and I don’t feel the steel wood did any harm. Now, if I used steel wool all the time and the barrel, that would be different.

If your Omega’s barrel is blued, keep it clean and oiled (inside and out)…NO MATTER WHAT POWDER YOU ARE USING. Don't wait a couple days after your range session to clean it. I have found that my Omega’s barrel is EXTREMELY susceptible to rust. I have no idea if the stainless steel barrels are the same way…I would hope not. I will be applying Dyna-Bore Coat to the…you guessed it, bore, and will probably be painting the exterior of the barrel…camo, of course!!...to take care of the rust issues.

+1 on Omega 45 write up. I agree with all he said. My Omega happens to top out at 100 gr of Blackhorn 209 then accuracy starts down hill but that sort of difference is normal. I suggest starting at 90 gr and working up by no more than 10 gr increments and personally I use 5 gr increments. be safe and have a good time.

X3 on this great advise! Ray

Thank you all for the great advice, this weekend im gonna start my experimenting. I will post my results! Thanks again all

I just bought an Omega too. I don't see any sense in starting another thread on the same subject. Hope you don't mind Redneck?

In the past I used mostly traditional muzzleloaders. (Hawkens). I did try a couple of CVA inlines, but not for long. I wanted to try a TC, and I like the Omega. It's so hard to get a ML tag in my area of Colorado i've settled on just shooting the rifle season with a ML. This way I can scope it and use sabots.

I have no experience with sabots, so i'm sort of lost. I did know buying the gun that it would have a tight bore. My plan was to use the Barnes T-EZ bullets and sabots. I do love the performance of the all copper bullet. After reading a lot on this forum on sabots in the Omega i'm thinking i'll have a hard time loading the Barnes. Is that right? I have a Gift Card for BPS, and I was planning on getting them there to use up the card. My local gun shop doesn't stock any sabots, because of not being legal here during ML season, but he can order most anything for me. I just hate ordering and spending money on ammo that doesn't work.

Should I lap the bore with JB Bore Conditioner before even trying any sabots? I'm more of a hunter than someone who loves to shoot at the range. I know I need to put in my time at the range, but if i can at least start with a combination that has a chance to work i'll be happy.

I'd like to stay at 250 gr for a bullet. Maybe some links for where I can buy what you suggest?

Thanks in advance.

Muley Hunter

I will just give my opinion on using JB on a new rifle. I use just a little the first time, just enough to clean out any nasty package lube. Then finish up with Hoppes and wipe it dry for inspection.

I usually like to try a few sabots for fit and then go shoot it. Since its a T/C you might need to give it a really good cleaning and a few extra passes of JBs. They can run on the tight side and they have some heavy packing lube sometimes.

JBs is really more of a good polish and cleaner than a true lapping compound. It will put a hell of a nice shine on it though and help reduce fouling/loading resistance.

Ok, I can do that. I usually use brake cleaner to get out factory lube, but i'm open for suggestions.

Do you think I can get the Barnes to load with the sabots it comes with?

IIRC the Barnes TEZ series are about the smallest loaded OD. I haven't seen many smaller. Maybe the Knight version is as small but i think its the same and is really close to .500 loaded OD. I only have the EZ load Spitfires to compare so im not sure.

If they are too loose you may want to try a Harvester black crushrib sabot.

I just used JB on a friends .50 Encore that was a hard loader. It loads Harvester 300gr PT's in a crushed rib sabot great now. I would run about 25 passes of JB to start and clean up with Hoppes or oil of your choice. Like GM54-120 advised if the Barnes T-EZ's load tight or you do not get the accuracy you are looking for switch out the sabots for Harvester Crushed ribs as the T-EZ's are flat based.

I have good luck using CCI209M's in my .50 Omega. The .45 Omega likes Rem STS and the .45 Encore likes regular CCI primers. All use the same breechplug and like I mentioned earlier have been 100% reliable for me with Blackhorn 209.

Muley Hunter,

I'm not sure about the Barnes sabots. I do know that Harvester Crushed Rib Black will work very well with my Omega. It would be worth the $7-8 to have a pack of 50 in stock to try with your bullet of choice. As with others above, I match it with the 300 Scorpion PT Gold from Harvester. Give them a call and they'll send you some samples to try out if you like. Plus the Scorpions are reasonable at about $23 for 50.

I started with the Omega just to extend my hunting season and now I'm a MZ range rat. It's addictive.

Muley Hunter,

Before I ran steel wool in my Omega barrel, I had no problem loading any of the bullet/sabot combos I had, which included T/C Cheap Shots, T/C Shockwaves, Barnes TEZs, Harvester Scorpion PT Golds w/ crush rib sabot (i.e. I didn’t run the steel wool because I had loading difficulties…it was for rust and accuracy issues). That may be because the T/C stuff is, well…T/C stuff, the TEZs were designed for tighter barrels, and the Harvester crush rib sabots simply load like butter (literally…VERY little effort needed). Your results may vary, as it appears that others here have noticed difficulty in loading the Omega before they ran the JB compound down their bores. Not me.

Regardless of what bullets you buy (many come with their own sabots…e.g. the TEZs), you can mix and match bullets/sabots all day long, provided the combo adds up to .50. For example, I like having some T/C Cheap Shots on hand because I like to shoot and they are….CHEAP (I hear they actually work very well on game too, not sure I’ll attempt to gain experience with that, though). Those bullets come with their own sabot, but are .44 cal. So, if I wanted to try out another sabot with that bullet, I shouldn’t use the Harvester black crush rib sabot, as it is designed to hold a .45 cal bullet. Instead, I’ll use the Harvester green crush rib sabot, designed for a .44 cal bullet.

You may find that the Barnes TEZ shoots very well out of your gun in its own sabot. If you’ve experimented with different charges/charge volumes and it doesn’t shoot well, but you really want to use a Barnes bullet, order the Barnes bullets you want with a variety of sabots to see if it makes a difference. Midsouthshooterssupply.com has the best selection of muzzleloading components that I have seen.

You stated that you’re more of a hunter than a target shooter. You may just be looking for a simple combo that gets you minute-of-deer accuracy at 100 yards. As someone else mentioned in this or another recent thread, there are plenty of people that are happy with 2-3 pellets of pyrodex and the projectile of their choice. I thought that would be me. When I bought my Omega, it was simply a means to extend my season. But I have found that muzzleloaders are just plain fun to shoot AND tinker with. My 1 MOA load is a Harvester 260gr Scorpion PT Gold bullet w/ black crush rib sabot, 90gr BH209 and a CCI 209M Primer. Even though I’m getting 1 MOA and I know that the PT Gold’s terminal performance is excellent, I still want to experiment. I can’t wait to add the red crush rib sabot to the mix! If only I could get a chance to get out and shoot sometime soon!

7.62NATO

IMO those 310gr? lead "cheapshot" type bullets really are not that bad at all. At the right fps and hardness, they should knock the snot out of medium and smaller game. One of this years goals for me is trying out cheaper options such as smooth sided cast bullets and a very hard lead bullet that mimics the SST type bullets for range/practice use.

I highly recommend the PT Scorpion Golds for practice just because they are affordable and still pretty effective on game. They have been very accurate for me but they are a bit smaller OD than many 45cal bullets. Barnes 45s usually run the smallest OD and now i knurl all copper solids for a better fit if they are loose.

Good info. Thanks guys.

I actually need to work up 3 loads. Deer, elk/bear, and coyote. I don't shoot anything but muzzleloaders. The biggest challenge has been a long range coyote load. Pretty hard with a traditional ML. I'm hoping the Omega will give me the range I need.

I'm thinking 180 gr for coyote with as much powder as I can keep accurate.

250 gr for deer so I don't blow out too much meat.

300 gr with good power and penetration for elk and bear.

Gm54-120 - I think they are 240gr, and I think you are right about their terminal performance. I just couldn't get them to perform as accurately as the PT Golds. I just got some of the green crush rib sabots, so I will try them out with the Cheap Shots to see if that improves accuracy. If it does, I may re-zero for that load come next whitetail season. :)

Curious though...why would you recommend the PT Golds for practice over the Cheap Shots? Sure, they are not as expensive as Barnes, but they are a LOT more expensive than Cheap Shots! Also, when you say they are "pretty effective" on game, have you had an experience that would keep you from calling them "very effective?" Both deer I shot with them were toast.

Muley Hunter - From what I understand, the 300gr PT Golds have a pretty good BC and are very accurate in long-range situations...more so than 260gr (BH209 was used in the report I read). If you do not keep the coyote pelts, that is probably your best long-range bet, and of course it would work well on elk and bear as well. I would be interested in hearing reports of a 180gr projectile out of a .50 cal. For some reason, I would think it will be difficult to keep it accurate at longer ranges. And, come to think of it, 300gr or 180gr on a coyote...either way, the pelt is toast.

If you end up using BH209, I do recommend testing out the red crush rib sabot. You may find that you get a bit more velocity there.

you might find those red crushribs a very tight fit.with a .452 bullet they measure .508-9

He will have a hard time loading with the red crushed rib in the Omega. If the regular black crushed ribs are loose which they shouldn't next step up is Harvester smooths for under 300gr bullets. I have not seen a TC Omega, Triumph or Encore not like the Harvester 260 or 300gr PT's in a crushed rib ran with 100-110gr of BH209.

I've been reading about the PT Gold bullet. It talks about bone crushing penetration. This is good for longer shots on elk.

My concern is expansion. I see no mention of that. How do they do if I have a close shot at a deer? I don't want it to just blow through.

I think that's why I love the Barnes bullet. The expansion is just a joy to look at. It looks like a flower.

I'm sure the avatar that Gm54-120 uses is a Barnes. Hard to beat that bullet.

I'm still open minded though. Convince me the PT Gold is as good.

What do you guys think of the XTP bullet? maybe I could try the PT Gold and XTP for different hunting conditions.


Just so I don't make a mistake. Could one of you experts on these sabots give me the number sabot I should order for the 3 different bullets i'm going to try.

PT Gold
XTP
Barnes

http://www.harvesterbullets.com/inde...emart&Itemid=3

Yellow Crush Rib for Barnes BT bullets H35045BYR only available from Harvester.

Black Crushed Ribs for .451-.452 flat base bullets. If you have the Barnes T-EZ this is the sabot to use. .458 bullets work well in these too. H15045BR


Harvester smooths for < 300gr .451-.452 flat base bullets. 5045SB

I try to order my sabots from Grafs. Order as much as you want for$4.95 shipping. You can also get 12 packs of the Harvester 260-300gr PT's with crushed rib sabots for $9.99 to see if you like them before buying a 50 pack of the bullets from Harvester.
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...productId/5460

i use the harvester 5045 SB in both my triumph and X7 omega.but both have had 100 strokes of JB's bore cleaning compound before i ever shot them.........karl

kb1 and Omega45 - Have you actually tried the red sabots? Just curious. I have some but have not tried them yet. I recall reading an article over at Chuck Hawks where the author (not Randy Wakeman) had good success with a T/C rifle, Harvester red crush, and BH209. I guess I'll find out!

The Harvester Red CR sabots have a huge OD. Roughly .508+ so you better have a large bore or a hell of a tough range rod.

7.62;i have to say i haven't tried them in my T/C's but i have in my Disc-xt that has a larger bore,the disc likes MMP hph12 sabots which i would need a hammer to get down one of my T/C's.the red crushrib loads even a little harder........karl

I tried them (red crushed ribs) in my Encore Bargara barrel. They were very tight loading and after 3 shots were really a PITA to load without swabbing the barrel and starting over again on a clean bore. The Encore Bergara barrel is not as tight as the Omega bore is why I know they will really be a pain to load. My best accuracy using 260-300gr PT's is with the Harvester smooths in the Encore Bergara barrel and the Harvester black crushed ribs in the Omega. I do not have any of the red crushed ribs on hand now or I would load one in the Omega to see how hard it is to get down the bore.

7.62NATO

The only reason i suggest the PTs Golds for practice is if you want a accurate bullet with a similar BD/SD as a 300gr SST but cheaper. I have no doubt they are effective on deer and IMO far better than a XTP at holding together....usually

Thanks everyone. Now you're really making me want to try them in the Omega, especially with a chronograph. :D

With 110gr BH209 you should get just under 2000fps I believe with the PT's. Maybe its 1900fps. There is not much difference between the 260's and the 300's in velocity.

Best load I have tried out of mine is a STS primer, 85 gr. of BH209, and a Horandy 350gr. FPB.

7.62NATO

There is no way I would get a Red Cr down my Omega, even with a HPH-12 it is a real effort. The HPH-24 works very well for me both in the Omega and the Triumph.

This is a velocity table I started started last year and never finished - maybe this spring I will get back at it...

What in the world does TC put in the bores? I've gone through 50 patches so far. If I didn't know better, i'd say it looks like rust.

With a new gun I always start with brake cleaner. I soak a patch in BC and then run dry patches until it comes out clean. I've done that 6 times now, and every time I run a wet patch of BC through it looks like the first time. Brownish red crud. 5-6 dry patches and it starts to come clean, but if I run another wet one it starts all over again.

I've run a brush wrapped in 0000 steel wool through the bore with some rust remover. I've run some Break Free paste through. Followed by more brake cleaner and dry patches. I'm still getting brown red crud with a wet patch.

The bore looks as shiny as can be, but the crud is baffling me. I'm going to pump soapy water through it and see if that helps.

Any ideas?


When I got it dry once I tried some bullets to see how tight the bore is. I had a sample of bullets that Thor sent me. The .500 fell right through. The .501 seems perfect. The gun came with a sample of 5 Shockwave sabots. They went down the bore fine.

I'll be a happy camper if I can just get the patches to come out clean.

My new Triumph came with a bore ful of some sort of preservative that has a lot of copper in it...

When I cleaned mine I used a bore solvent followed by JB's...

If you have a .50 caliber brush here is one way I have found to get it really clean. I oil a patch, lay it over the muzzle and push the patch down the bore going a few inches scrubbing all the way down. It will be tight but will get it spotless in a few patches. It seems like you have it pretty good now if loading one of the TC Shockwaves in the supplied sabot go down nicely. Alternate from oil patch to dry patch and it should help the cleanup go quicker. Pull the breechplug and push it all the way through for the last few patches.

I do not think we would hear of tight TC bores if they did not put all the packing lube in the bore for shipping. Most just load and fire then it gets baked in there.

I wouldn't be as worried if it didn't have a rust look to the patches.

I'll keep working on it.


On the plus side. I love the gun.

OK, lots of scrubbing and a pile more patches.

She's squeaky clean, lubed up, and ready to go.

I ordered a Simms Limbsaver recoil pad for it. It will help my bum shoulder.


I ran all the Shockwave sabots and they went down just right. Not too loose or too tight.

As long as I use BH 209 I should be ok with sabots.

Be thankful you never had to clean any of the early 1980s gunshow Mauser, SKS or AKs dipped in cosmoline. Unless you have a gallon or two of CLP, you might as well use kerosene or diesel fuel.

Then you could start cleaning it with some Hoppes copper cleaner. :D

BTW parts cleaner works pretty good when the grease gets tough from drying out. Let it soak a bit then take a patched brush to it.

Ever try the Thor bullets? It's made by Barnes for Thor. No skirt or sabot needed. It's like the Hornady FTB, but a better bullet. It looks just like your avatar when shot.

Some guys love them.

http://thorbullets.com/

Never mind. I just did a search, and it seems the Omega is built to use sabots. So, that's what i'll use.

I guess that's why it came with a sample of sabots. :bash: