The 240 grain .430 XTP has worked for me on about 20 deer and a few hundred hogs. i will stick with that bullet.

Nothing wrong with that!

falcon;this is the kind of media testing thats important to me.
have you ever used 250g sst's if not would you like to?
they have allways done well for me on deer and i would think hogs would be a real world test of a bullet........karl

Indeed i have. I've also killed quite a few deer and a few dozen hogs using the 250 grain SST/Shockwave bullet. This boar went about 100 yards and piled up after being hit with a 250 grain Shockwave driven by 100 grains of 3F Pinnacle powder. Killed the sow the next evening using the same load-bang flop.

OK gentlemen please riddle me this one. If bullet coming apart is a bad thing, then why does Berger make a bullet that basically fragments yet kills game animals out around 600, 700, 800 yards +.
IMO there is nothing wrong with a bullet that comes apart expending all its energy within the animal.
Now shooting an elephant trying for a brain shot is where I do not want a bullet to come apart so I would use a solid bullet. But I haven't seen any elephants running around my woods so my ML will be loaded with XTPs and I will be happy when I am dressing out my deer or black bear. Yeah, if I were going for moose or something else larger than deer I would choose a different bullet - maybe.

The Berger coming apart is designed into the bullet as it is in the Lehigh and it is only a small portion of the bullet that fragments. The Berger core remains formed as a projectile and still retains most of the weight. it then continues to penetrate causing tissue damage and causing hydrostatic shock + it normally passes completely through. The nose of the core acts much like a Kieth Nose conical.

Lead separating for the copper often does not maintain it shape and often pancakes to the point penetration stops. It can also fragment showing the animal with lead particles. When using lead it seems more desirable to keep the lead contained and out of the meat.

That is a widely accepted theory but i think if you do some more research you will find the majority of hunters prefer penetration, hence the Nosler, Barnes, Lehigh, Berger and others.

Sabot - penetration into the vitals or ideally just past the vitals is all that is needed. I really do not see where a 250 or 300 grain bullet needs remain intact to cleanly kill an animal the size of a deer. I'm not arguing with you, just expressing my opinion.
And the XTP, even if it separates from its jacket might fragment a little but the majority of its mass will still mushroom and delivery its energy effectively and provide enough penetration on deer sized game.
The cost, performance and accuracy of the XTP makes it a good choice. At least that is my opinion. True, it isnt the best bullet out there for staying together but it works quite well.

+1
i've field dressed too many animals to second guess the effectiveness of the XTP bullet that is my favorite. The chest cavity is awash in blood, the lungs and/or heart shredded. Quite often the diaphragm and and liver are torn up as well.

The 240 grain .430 XTP bullet works well for me and i will not change.

My own little media test. These are from a 54x50 but i do have one 45-300gr XTP also.

Hornady .500 300gr FTX Retained 220gr Expanded OD .672-.648 110gr BH209


GoldDot .500A&E 300gr HP Retained 238gr Expanded OD .934-.692 110gr BH209. This DeepCurl is actually designed for much less fps than the FTX. 50A&E vs 50S&W for the FTX.


Hornady 45 300gr XTP Retained 190gr Expanded OD .792-.647 100gr BH209..even less powder than the 50cal 300s.


Alexander Arms has some Gels tests too and the DC 300gr had 3" more penetration than the 350gr XTP.

Its simply a better bullet at a similar cost.

I can not argue that point either. In most cases that is all that is needed.

I totally understand where you are coming from and I really am not inthis for an argument either. It really is just differing points of view. I really do always prefer a pass through and for me they are important. I believe that adds to a quicker dimise of the animal and in the Mountians that I hunt it could mean taking the animal home or eating it where it lands... Of course you could bone it out - but I am not competent enough to do that with any skill at all. You know what, and possibly shooting deer, your suggestion, might be all you need. I would suggest hunting elk while in rut is a different story. Most of us really want to anchor the animal on the spot. People go to the extent of shooting magnum centerfires just so they can shoot through both shoulders - not really caring what happens to the meat.

It is my theory, and that is all it is my theory, that I want the quickest most humane way in there is to harvest an animal, short of blowing it up. I believe that if you do your part and place the best bullet you have available in the right spot you can often over ride the animals 'fright-flight' response system. I have been witness or a part of a lot of this shots first using Noslers and now in the infancy of using Lehighs. I like you saw no need in the world to switch from the best bullet in the world to a new bullet. When you see what a Nosler, Lehigh, Berger, and Barnes can do to the chest cavity of an animal and the trama it creates you would really understand. This devastation is not a 1 in 10 thing it is more like 8 out of 10 even with marginal shots, and at my age I need all the advantages.

It is also my belief in this day and age more advanced bullets have been developed just for this purpose by people that know what they are doing. When I first read about a Lehigh - my first thoughts were - ya you bet you want me to hunt with a fragmenting bullet. Well after reading about Berger and even the Euopean way of hunting it kinda made sense. After a lot of testing I am believer.

The same thing goes with the debate of XTP/Deep Curl. I have used both and observed the results of both and yes both lead to dead animals and yes the XTP has for 30 years or more than the Gold Dot/Deep Curl. The only thing I can tell you for a regularly priced bullet bullet the Deep Curl shares a lot of the charcteristics of the premium bullets. They do not come apart and they have a somewhat controlled expansion, not as good as Barnes, Nosler, or the Lehigh but it is not bad.

After reading Lee's post i really feel bad that I ever indicated that the XTP or any Hornady as that goes is a BAD bullet. My only point is I really believe there are more advanced designed bullets made today. Designed with new materials and designed to do more in a shorter period of time.

I would hope this makes some sense...

I can assure you the examples that I have seen including two elk I shot with a 220 grain Hornady the lead did not stay together. light weight lead chunks at that velocity can not stay together - hence the use of very heavy lead conicals when hunting with a lead bullet.

Opps just read you last line - deer sized game.

I would never disagree with your statement at all - I can live with that statement very easily. I am the cheap SOB that will not switch to BH because it cost to much per shot.

But the other side of the coin is the Deep Curl is approximately the same price and for the reasons stated above... I believe they offer more advantages to shoot animals with.

Like Lee said if they work for you they are a great bullet - I know XTP's will work if you shoot them in their designed limits. I just think the Deep Curls limits are higher and they work faster.

Gosh i hope this is not offending because that was never the point. But I have to tell you my strong point has never been in written expressions and probably my verbalization is not much better...

mike