another powerbelt thread
 

well, this is about a lot of things but it's connected to the powerbelt debate.

--just about any gun out there, including .22s, will kill deer. my grandfather put a number of deer down on the spot with a .22 magnum back in the day.

--there's a LOT of great guns and ammo out there today. a LOT. just like beer or food, each kind will have its faithful followers and also those that can't stand it. that's what makes the world go around.

what does this all mean? YOU need to decide for yourself. YOU need to do your own "taste test," as it were, and figure it out.

for example, i bought an inexpensive wolf cva package. it came with 15 powerbelt 295 hollow points. rather than throwing them out and buying something else (if i had just made that decision based on reading negative comments here and elsewhere), i tried them out FOR MYSELF.

and i was happy with them! and still am happy with them (shooting 777 100 grains with them).

now: does that mean you will be happy with them? no. just like it's not my job to discourage you from trying something for yourself, it's also not my job to get you to buy something simply based on my own success.

and i don't work for wolf or powerbelt, nor do i get any free stuff from them. just saying we all need to approach things this way. use these forums to get a little more educated--but stop short of talking yourself completely out of a product you've never tried yourself.

know what i mean?

yep. and after using them for a couple years i got good and educated and wouldn't use them if they were free..

fair enough. i'm not trying to talk you into using them or not using them. that's the point.

i'm sure you'd recommend a beer to me that i thought tasted like **** as well. that doesn't make the beer bad. just personal tastes. again, my point.

my grandfather would laugh at all of us getting all lathered up about specs and bullets and what not. kind of the same as bad golfers blaming their golf clubs. make a good shot on a deer and the animal's going down. pretty simple.

Michlw39

Agree with your points... and I am glad that they worked for you and to be truthful they have worked for a lot of people. In fact my hunting partner uses them in his Hawken.

I tried them and since as Cayugad says I am a 'Powder monkey' they do not work for me other than on paper. I will always prefer velocity/energy over a slower moving bullet. In Idaho when I have to shoot a concical - I do shoot a big slow conical - but one that will not pancake and come apart on occasions.

There are a lot folks that put everything into accuracy and in that department they do shine most of the time. I readily admit I do not use the most accurate bullet hunting - I use the bullet that APPEARS to give me the most terminal ballistcs.

i do think there's a lot to the concept of certain guns liking certain kinds of ammo. what works for me might not work for you, and vice versa. the important thing is that you've come to some decisions on equipment based on your own personal experimentation.

i'm also open to trying new things. i'll keep experimenting as well.

trying new things and experimenting is what makes muzzle loading so much fun. In the end, if you dont like something, you can always go back to your original set up. Been there many times!

For a bullet to "work well" it needs to be sufficiently accurate AND it needs to perform on the animal. I've never used powebelts, but I don't need to read more than a couple reports of them blowing apart and not passing through a deer with 100 gr charges to know they are not a bullet I need to try for myself to see if it works. I like a bullet that I can shoot accurately with at least 100 gr of powder AND will normally pass through a deer.

I've had great results with FPBs and Maxiballs, that's all I've ever shot in a ML. I don't shoot a lot, and when something performs I don't mess with it.

Michlw39

I agree with the premise of your statement. In many cases, personal experiences vary and people should be content with what they choose to hunt with. But I don't think it's wise to over-look other's experiences either. I will openly admit, I've never killed an animal with a Powerbelt. But my buddy who I hunt with all year/every year does. I've seen them fail way too often. In that sense, I don't need to shoot them to 'test' them.

i.e. I don't have to touch a stove to know it's hot. I've seen others do it and seen them get burned (pun intended)

That's why these forums are great. You can learn from others.

Sabotloaders statement says it all very well. in the end you decide what bullet you want to use and you have to live with that decision.would a PB be my choice? absolutely not, but that's my decision..live and learn!

Every thing has its place, I love to blow coyotes up with the 245 gr and in a pinch if up plug the hollow point they will do a good job on deer. But when I pay that much for a bullet then I expect to get the proper results with out having to doctor it. Compared to the other bullets in the same price range they do not fare well.
An FPB a Thor a Lehigh a Barns a Shock Wave are in that price range; and then there is the reasonable priced Gold Dot or Deep Curl which does as good a job as any of the on deer and boar for a fraction of the cost.
I say shoot what ever you like but do take the trouble to understand whats available and how best to use it.

I ahve been hunting with a muzzleloader for the last 3 years. I am 3 for 3 on whitetail.

1st year.. Cva Wolf loaded with a 295 grain hollow point powerbelt, and 80 grains of
777 loose powder. Shot a doe at 50 yards, and she dropped in her
tracks. Found the bullet inside, and it mushroomred perfectly.

2nd year.. Cva Wolf with the same load as above. Shot a doe at about 40 yards
quartering to me. She ran about 30 yards and dropped. Found the bullet
inside, and it mushroomed perfectly.

3rd year... Remmington Gennesis, loaded with a 295 grain Aerotip Powerbelt, and 80
grains of 777 loose powder. Shot a 7 point buck at 40 yards, quartering
to me just a little. Bullet went in right side in front of front shoulder,
same spot on other side. Buck dropped in his tracks.

Now, I have not had to follow a blood trail yet since 2 of them fell in their tracks, and the doe last year, ran right into the river and died. So, I cant say anything about the blood trails. But, so far, I see no reason to change a thing.

I think on some things, like beer and pickups, there's a bit of personal preference involved. But a bullet seems a different thing, in the sense I don't reckon folks really care how it tastes, what it looks like as long as it does the job. From my pov a bullet only has a few jobs a) be easy (enough) to load b) be accurate c) make two holes in a critter, and bigger is better.

I used 300 grain Nolser hollow points (.429) and several other .429s including XTPs to kill several deer, generally just one a year, and every single one I was either getting small exit or no exit and finding my bullets fragged to tiny pieces. This after dozens of shots trying to get the muthers to group, settling for 4", 75 yard groups. So I was shooting at close range, relatively, from 20 to 50 yards.

Finally I changed my charge from 100 grains (Pryo) to 80 grains experimenting for accuracy... and because I'm a cheap bastid and ran up on some 30g pellets for 1/2 price. LOL Sha-zam! Other than dropping a fair bit, ~8" I figure on my zero, I'd have no problem taking 150 yard shots, and a 125 I'm in the black. Last year I got full penetration even on quarting away full diagonal lenght from last rib to first rib (doe) at 120 stops. Year before, another doe, shot straight through the base of the neck, big exit hole, again over 100 yards.

My point is this. I've never fooled with the power belt bullets or experimented too much with any of this but if the trouble has historically been fragmentation then one really should consider the velocity they are being used at. If you are pushing bullets past 1500 fps many of the hundgun designed bullets simply are made too soft for that. And from what I've read folks are pushing bullets up to 2200 fps or more. There are some great bullets for this, centerfire .451 stuff, customs, those frequently mentioned here... I'm rambling. But the point remains, pick the bullet for the kinda work you want to do. But don't get fooled into thinking just because a bullet has worked well that it will work well under any conditions. For example, even at 80 grain charge my 300g Noslers might still frag on me inside of 30 yards.

everyone has their preferences and everyone's gun is different. I shoot powerbelts and have killed 2 deer with them. neither did i have a problem with pass throughs or blood trails. they work perfectly for ME. its up to you to decide what you want to use to hunt all we can do on a forum is state our expierences. and others can take what they want from our expierences i wont bash sabots, im sure they work fine, i wont bash roundballs im sure they work fine too.

"and i was happy with them! and still am happy with them (shooting 777 100 grains with them). "

You don't really explain why you are happy with them. Because they are accurate or because you have had good luck with them in the field or both?

Everyone will pretty much agree that they are generally an accurate bullet. They are also a good hunting bullet that if used within their margins for errors (lower velocities and not passing through major bones). So if they work for you with how you use them, good for you and them.

Personally, I can get as good of accuracy in a different bullet that will hold up better at higher velocities and when hitting harder structures (bone) and costs me less.

Powerbelts
 

So this makes you able to comment on the bullets and how well they work. The usual complaint is not how they shoot, it is the terminal performance.

I was once like you, and thought a bullet was a bullet and as long as it was accurate "I was good".

Wait until you shoot a Trophy Buck, the smoke clears, you can't find blood and you have no idea which direction to search. I had this happen. I was lucky to recover the deer without any blood trail on a text book broadside shot at 20 yards. That was the last time I used a Powerbelt. It may not happen everytime, but even once, especially on the first time was enough to make me do some research and testing of my own. Luckily in the states I hunt I can shoot sabots and I have switched to the Barnes TEZ.

Your post
Comparing beer and bullets is a poor way to choose what you shoot. Drawing conclusions too quickly will often send you in the wrong direction.

There are a lot of people on this forum that posess a wealth of knowledge. It has taken them years and many shots from a muzzleloader to form their opinions. Don't be in such a rush to defend a product you really know nothing about.

Powerbelts sell because of their marketing, they put them in with certain guns like you bought, they are readily available, they are easy to load, they have flashy finishes and commercials. They know what sells and they capitalize on that. I spoke to a guy at powerbelt after I had a pencil hole passthru. He admitted to me that the hollow point design did not expand and stay together as well as the solid blunt nose bullet. He also said that the public thinks they need the hollow point, so thats what they push and the public purchases. He also told me if they had a rack of solid blunt nose bullets, and a rack of hollow points, the hollow point rack sells. Manufacturers and Retail Stores are in business to move product and make money. Most users never put it all together and keep buying what they always bought. Do as you wish, but don't defend a product you have very little experience with.

He admitted to me that the hollow point design did not expand and stay together

Well if the bullet did not stay together, it obviously expanded LOL

.50 caliber / 223 grain / aerotip copper
 

I have shot several deer with this bullet with great success.

Who are you referring to when you say "He" the original poster?

That's amazing. I have not found a bullet that I could shoot more than one deer with. :s1::s1::s1:

You are funny.

Michlw39,

No, I dont know what you mean. Do you mean killing paper, or living breathing animals, with bones, muscle, organs, and tissue? Nobody ever questioned their ability to kill paper, they do that rather well in some rifles.

My question to you, is how many deer, or other animals have you taken with them? I'm guessing by how and what you wrote in your post that you are relatively new to muzzleloaders?

My dad used to hunt with a .22 magnum back when they were still legal, he had some success, then it happend. He lost a very nice buck, they looked for three days for that buck, to no avail. It was found a couple weeks later by a neighboring farmer. Do you think my dad ever shot another deer with a .22 magnum? Nobody likes losing an animal, but it happens, and it is our duty not to help prevent it from happening. The .22 magnums were later removed from the legal methods of take by the State, and for good reason.

LKNCHOPPERS had a very good post, you might want to re-read that one.

The PowerBelts are the most loved/hated bullets in the muzzleloader world. I know several people that loved them, until they hated them. Know what I mean?

I'm not going to tell you not to use them, but 100 gr of 777 powder is pushing that bullet much harder than it's design is capable in all instances. You hit heavy bone in the shoulder, you will probably not get past the ribs with anything bigger than a fragment. I tried to warn several people of this, most had to learn their own lesson.

The reason that they are so popular, is CVA has put together an excellent marketing campaign. Every place you can buy muzzleloader supplies sells them, because of advertising and marketing to the guys just starting out in the muzzleloader world. The big box clerks, many don't know any better themselves, 9 times out of 10 will either recommend PowerBelts, pelletized powder, or both. If you are looking for easy, they make it easy. Just drop in 2 pellets and a PowerBelt, and you're off to the races. They generally shoot paper well enough, so this must be good, right? I guess you will have to answer that for yourself, once you have some experience to go with your decision.

Good luck with your decision, I truely hope it works well for you, but history tends to repeat itself. If you look, PowerBelts have a lot of history. The beer and food analagy might work for paper, but when the big dogs go hunting, they leave the skirts back at the house. Know what I mean?

There are 2 kinds of people when it comes to PowerBelts. Those that hate them, and those that don't know it yet!

Friends don't let friends shoot PowerBelts!

powerbelt in a flintlock is BEST bullet i have ever used.45 years hunting bucks with hawkins .50 cal .
but it has to be loaded MEDIUM .

i like 295/348 gr. loading my hawkins at no more than 80 grs and being able to not have RECOIL/SMOKE/NOISE/EASY LOADING IN COLD is great thing and bullet opens nicely on a buck.

shoot them in a in-line at high velocity,I WOULD NEVER DO THAT TO A DEER.
as most load their in-lines HOT powerbelt is not bullet i would use.
but in a open sight flintlock, ITS A GREAT BULLET .