I opened a new box of Hornady conicals today, and it then dawned on me just how much lube they slather on these bullets. I guess it stands out after using sabots for awhile.

Anyway, it got me to thinking, what is the true purpose behind bullet lube? Is it to helf the bullet slide down the bore easier during loading? I wonder if this really is the case since, after pulling an unfired bullet out of the bore (actually, removing the breach plug and pushing it out the muzzle), I noted that most of the lube it left on the crown of the muzzle during loading. Upon removing the unfired bullet I noted that there is little to no lube on the newly cut rifling grooves in the sides of the bullet. This leads me to believe that the lube that would have been helpful is scraped off by the muzzle and lands leaving bare lead to steel contact.

I also am skeptical that the lube is intended to help the bullet slide out of the bore easier when fired. I was always under the impression that a lubricated bullet would actually reduce muzzle velocity because the bullet starts moving down the bore before pressure can build to its fill potential. I point to the use of moly lubes on centerfire rifle bullets as a similar case. It is my understanding that a rifle shooting the same load, with the only difference being the moly coated bullet vs. a standard copper jacketed bullet, that the velocity and chamber pressure will be lower with the moly bullet, but to compensate the case can be loaded " hotter" to bring the pressure back to the normal peak.

It would also seem to me that the lube would have the undersireable effect of allowing, under the right circumstances, the bullet to become dislodged from the power charge creating a dangerous air space in the chamber. I have never, to my knowledge, personally experienced this, but it makes sense that is could happen.

The only reason I can really see for the presense of lube is to soften the fouling created as the bullet leaves the bore by melting due to heat from the burning charge and the friction of the bullet against the bore. This softening effect would seem to help ease the difficulty of loading the next shot if one does not swab between shots, particularly if using a powder that fouls badly, such as real black powder. But if one chooses to spit patch between shots and shoots a clean burning, and easy to clean powder like T7, is the softening effect of the lube necessary?

So the real question is; is lubing bullets necessary in the age of black powder substitutes, provided that one cleans after every shot? Does the lube serve a greater and necessary purpose beyond ease of " dirty" reloading and easier cleaning?

Everyones thoughts are welcome.

Thanks,

Mike

Mike, good question. My personal opinion is that bullet lubes in muzzleloaders do the same thing as lubes for cast bullets in smokeless guns. They dont actually lubricate anything other than as you pointed out maybe making loading a little easier. Lubes' primary function is to seal the powder gasses behind the bullet. If you want to destroy accuracy just let the powder gasses leak around the bullet while its going down the bore. This has been proven by the cast bullet crowd in several ways. People thought for years that the lube was what kept the bullet from leading but recently it has been shown that a proper filler and enough of it to seal the powder gasses behind the bullet would produce equal accuracy and no leading in centerfires shooting cast bullets. I have done it myself, shot dry bullets with about 25 or 30 grains of cream of wheat over the powder. When you try it without the filler you will get leading and barn door accuracy. This supports the idea that lubes help prevent leading, but the main function is to provide a seal. Just like a sabot does, the thin layer of wax in lubes seals the gasses. The jacket on a modern bullet provides this seal. It does is mainly by providing enough strength to the bullet to withstand the 60000cup of pressure generated in high intensity loads. The brinnel hardness of a jacketed bullet is about 200 while your lead muzzleloader bullet has a hardness of about seven. This is why cast loads and muzzleloaders require lower pressures to maintain accuracy. The bullet isnt strong enough to withstand the pressures. Case in point, the savage smokeless muzzleloader. It will blow most sabots to vapor because it produces much higher pressures than black powder. Mr. Ball has figured that out and will tell you which sabots to use in his guns to get the best accuracy. Anyway, bullet lubes arent lubes at all, they are gas checks. The patch around a roundball does the same thing, thats why loads that blow the patch dont shoot straight. The gasses pass the ball in the bore which will destroy accuracy every time.

The lube does help the bullet slide down the bore, and it also helps loosen and remove some of the fouling when loading. When the gun is fired, the lube is spread around pretty well by the powder gases, and it does help to prevent a buildup of leading on the surfaces of the bore. if you don' t think so, just shoot a few of those bullets without any lube!!

I think you' re right elde, that lubes help prevent leading by creating a barrier between the bullet metal and the bore. I just think their primary benefit is sealing the gasses behind the bullet. Ive never tried it in a muzzleloader, but in my 6.5 swede I have shot unlubed bullets made of wheel weights at velocities around 1800fps with no leading. The trick is to use a filler that will seal the powder gasses behind the bullet. If you shoot these same bullets without the filler they will lead immediately. There was a good series of articles in the cast bullet magazine several years ago about this ........interesting stuff. The general consensus was that lubes are more of a sealer than a lubricant. The articles started when somebody was wondering why some very good lubricants make very poor bullet lubes. One of these guys, in an effort to prove his point came up with the idea of using cream of wheat as a filler. No lubricating properties to speak of, but it did seal the gasses when enough was used. I have shot litterally thousands of these loads in the swede. You just throw the powder charge, then with another powder measure full of cereal, throw enough cream of wheat to fill the case to the bottom of the neck and then seat the unsized, unlubricated un gas checked bullet on top and go shoot. I think if you wanted to try it in a muzzle loader though, you might want to seat your powder charge, then add the filler to keep the filler and the powder from getting all mixed up. Not really worth the trouble in muzzleloader.

LARRY338

I am about to try a " real" grain in my just purchased Traditions Fox River 50 1-48" twist that I got from a garage sale for $35. The stainless steel barrel only has nine shots in it lifetime, but the black poly-sprayed stock needs some refinishing first because the oldtimer who owned the rifle had a deer blind in deep, thick woods that scratched & discolored the stock in several areas.

I am not a big fan of heavy conicals -- which most 1-48s do like. I want to see if I can get some good 100 yard groupings using lighter 245 grain Buffalo Ballets and 245 grain Powerbelts. If necessary, I plan on stuffing either 15 grains of Cream of Wheat or Cornmeal between the powder & bullet. I' ll know in one week how it works... I first must apply some brown & green camouflage paint along with some black webbing paint to dress-up the stock.

Good luck T-7, if that doesnt work you should try some patched roundballs too. Alot of folks think 1-48 twists wont work with roundballs, but I know that it will. You might have to do some experimenting with different ball sizes and patch thicknesses. Ive never tried it in a muzzleloader, but waxed card wads might be worth a try for those bullets too. You can cut them out of milk cartons with a punch. I have a freind who was trying to get lee real bullets to work in his gun and finally hit on using wonder wads under them. They never shot as good as other bullets, but that did make a difference. I personally like the hollow base designs for ease of finding accuracy. Perhaps just as important as sealing gasses(either with lubes or fillers) is obturation. If you look at bullet designs from the late muzzleloading era, mainly the first half of the 19th century, you see that the ballistics engineers had figured that out. Most of the worlds armies were using hollow base bullets in their muzzleloading infantry weapons. In spite of what Tony Knight will tell you, I dont think that type of gun and load has been improved. That design is harder to cast well, and needs to be made of pure lead, but once you do that they are easy to get to shoot well in alot of guns. Of course, plastic will obturate easily and with injection molding equipment sabots are easy to manufacture. ..............drifted off subject a little. good luck with your load.