yeah supposedly round balls dont kill for snot past 50 yards because they dont hold energy

Lots of ways to calculate what a bullet will do. But the only real test is how it works on the game you are shooting.

Lots and lots of expensive bullets available today. I personally think these bullets are more designed to attract the hunter, rather than effectively kill deer.

All I know is this. A big heavy lead conical kills deer DEAD. Lead works every time, and at most any velocity. A 1/2" chunk of lead is just deadly. Even if it does not expand at all it is still a 1/2" going in.

I have bought all the expensive bullets. And shot a bunch of them. But I keep going back to a good lead conical for MZ shooting. There is no expensive bullet out there that can kill a deer better than lead.

Notice I said DEER. But even for heavier game like an elk. A 525 grain pure lead conical will just knock the snot out of them also.

And a good heavy conical can shoot well, just take your time. And I pour my own. No $1 or more a shot for me. Good luck guys.

There is something to be said for the flatter trajectory of some of the modern bullets. And I still admit that I have shot these. And probably still will. I guess I am just getting cheaper in my old age.

Personally I think the Taylor method is better than just focusing on KE. Or ft/lbs. I do not put much faith in that system. Tom.

Granted, this is only a piece of the puzzle and certainly not the biggest piece, because any formula makes good bullets and bad look the same on paper.

But on the other hand, you wouldn't shoot a 50 gr bullet out of a muzzleloader and expect good results. Where to draw the line on bullet size and speed is one thing this formula helps determine.

If you do some research on Mr. Taylor, he has pretty good credentials to give some advice in this area.

"Karamoja" Bell killed many hundreds of elephants with the 6.5X54 Mannlicher and the .275 Rigby. The .275 Rigby is the Brit name for the 7X57 Mauser cartridge.

Taylor did not kill all his dangerous game animals with large caliber, heavy and slow bullets. One of Taylor's favorite dangerous calibers was the .375 H&H magnum: He killed over 1,000 elephants with his five rifles in that caliber. The .375 H&H is at the bottom of the big bore rifle scale and it does not fire slow heavy bullets.

My paper patched 460 gr 500 S&W bullets in my Muzzleloader are running 43.12 I can tell you for a fact that those bullets are just not found in game, they blast right through. So far I have not shot a elk but I plan on it at some time. ALL the deer I have seen shot with them are like warm butter when thse bullets hit them. Same thing for Antelope. Ron

It takes less than a formula to tell me I can do better than a 50gr bullet in a big bore. And also, it doesn't take much thought to figure plain lead isn't the ticket for 300 winnie velocities, even though a formula would lend the same numbers for a barnes X at the same speed.

If I'm not mistaken, the TKO factor was designed to give numbers for dangerous african game and was used to determine charge-stopping effect.... I don't think I'll be consulting it any time soon.

Well, I wouldn't live by it - and could get by quite well if I'd never heard of it. But it is interesting and gives us something to debate. You're right about Taylor's African bent, but there's no doubt he knew his stuff.

+1 Just something else to think about when you are sitting at a computer instead of out shootin.